Friday, 11 January 2008

Palingenesia

One of the less discussed aspects of CTF is the idea that we all live our life over and over again in the final second of our first life - what Karl terms The Vigin Life. Although it has not been discussed a great deal on this blog it is still of profound importance if CTF is to work as a philosophical construct. This idea is far from new. The Stoics, for example, called this endless repetition palingenesia. The word has its roots in Greek - 'palin-', again, '+ genesis', becoming, or rebirth. What I find particularly frustrating is how many dictionaries and web references state that this is another word for reincarnation. It clearly is not. The Stoics did not in any way believe in reincarnation as it is understood by most people - i.e. that after death a person is re-born as somebody else, or even a different life-form. No, they understood palingenesia to be exactly how I describe it in ITLAD - that we are all re-born as ourselves living our own lives again.

For example it is commonly stated to me that deja vu is proof of reincarnation. How can this be? When I experience a deja vu I sense that I have been in this place, having this experience before. However the experience is unique to me and is related to this moment and this time. If it was a memory of a past life as somebody else in a different time then surely it would feel 'different' not 'Familiar'. For example if I am a reincarnation of an person who stood in this location during the Civil War the first thing I would notice is that my clothes would be unfamiliar, as would the look of the people around me, the furniture I see etc. This would not be a deja vu experience but a 'flashback' - a totally different phenomenon.

For me deja vu is implies one thing, and one thing only. it is what it seems to be - a reliving of the same moment as the same person in the same circumstances. And the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from this is that the experiencer has lived this moment before. it is a 'memory'.

19 comments:

susan marie said...

Thank you for this post which reads like a mini-synopsis of ITLAD?; it simplifies and clarifies its crux and central theme. As I have said before, I had found your theory to be a formidable polemic countering Peter Novak's binary doctrine, because of his mania for reincarnation. Were he to truly examine your theory, his central thesis would hurtle down into nothing. I had posted this morning on Karl's blog post regarding the neuroscientist Persinger ( I must re-locate his articles which I have saved on another computer, and make certain of the correct spelling of his name): he has a NDE theory in which the life review is seen as similar to a computer "upload"-- and yet he, too, veers off into that most implausible and undesirable of doctrines, reincarnation. I am thankful to you for reaching the conclusion which you have, which is the correct and therefore superior analysis. You have given we who are Nietzscheans after a manner true hope which is compatible with 21st century reason, ethics, and technological knowledge. . .

Anthony Peake said...

It is interesting that you mention the work of Professor Michael Persinger. In my next book I go into some detail the implications of Persinger's 'sensed presence' with regard to the existence of the Daemon. I argue that what Persinger's subjects perceive is, in fact, their own Daemon.

Indeed an opportunity for name dropping here. Last summer I gave a paper to the annual general meeting of the Scientific & Medical Network in Manchester. Afterwards I had the opportunity to discuss the implications of CTF with the world renowned NDE researcher Professor Peter Fenwick. Peter and I discussed the implications of Persinger's work. He agreed that my work and that of Persinger had a good deal in common.
I am really looking forward to having a response from Michael when the new book is published.

susan marie said...

Well, if you have made it into the league of a Fenwick and Persinger, your work is indeed blessed; I sensed from the first that this was inevitable, and would be fulfilled. Now you've gone and made all your bloggers feel jealous, envious, the works. The Ferryman will get you! (No, I am not psychotic, just envious and joking. Truly sorry.)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

It's certainly a League of Gentlemen to be reckoned with isn't it!
I can also envisage "Cheat The Ferryman - He's out to get you" The Movie (with Sting as Papa Peake obviously).
I do agree with Tony that the eternal return in often and erroneously used to argue for reincarnation when in actuality its own inherent tautology should lead to the opposite conclusions.
I do wish I could experience Deja Vu purley for my own empirical understanding (indeed I have often had Jamais Vu - as one particular meeting with Tony in a pub in Wigan testifies (remember Tony?), er, I'm losing myself in parenthesis here).
And I do experience extremely weird Lucid Dreaming, when I do sleep - being one who suffers from legendary insomnia, and my own Bipolarity which manifests itself almost entirely cerebrally (contrasting the more usual physical aspects of mood swings) leads me to often subliminal bouts of creativity which I can only attribute to the kind of distant guidance that Aleister Crowley had with Aiwass, and many of the world's greatest writers who felt their greatest works flow from them in a metaphysical trance.

Hurlyburly said...

Go through the posts from a month or two ago, you may enjoy my post about dreams that cheat time. Touches on what Anthony talks about in his book; time perception/direction during dreams.

I'm gutted my email didn't get picked up, it would have fitted in perfectly, ah well, next time around i'll remind my daemon to send it earlier, he better listen he's a lazy f**ker!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Ha! HurlyBurly,
At least your Daemon is just lazy, mine seems to be lolling on a beach somewhere.
My Lucid Dreaming is extraordinary and equally great fun.
Once in the dream I can check if I am dreaming by trying to read a book.
I read prodigously (wayyyy too much), and in dreams you cannot concentrate on formation of sentence structures.
Indeed my spiritual home, where my soul is most at peace, is Camden Town in North London where another synchrondipitous event took place regarding Tony and JW Dunne's "An Experiment in Time" book.
In my Lucid Dreams, I can travel straight to Camden where I pop into the bookshop there, find Tony's book and when I realise I can't read it, it opens up a myriad of somnabulent opportunities, but I won't elaborate on them at this juncture.
*ahem*

zenna said...

I don’t believe in time, I had this experience once where time just was not there,
It was a long time ago and I was driving to London to visit some friends, I was on the motorway, and all of a sudden I had this terrible vision of a pile up but the thoughts were so bad, I remember saying to my self, no way! then something inside me said it’s going to be ok, I saw this lorry start to jack knife in the middle lane , I was doing about sixty miles an hour on the inside lane, there was so many cars behind me
But not many in front, I thought gosh I cant suddenly stop and i thought, right the only way was for me to speed up real fast, I got my speed up to doing 90 miles an hour, and drove for my life as I looked out my mirror, I saw the accident there must have been 25 cars involved burning exploding cars, it was unreal like watching a slow movie, as I was watching it in slow motion, still driving very fast, and getting know where, it was like the cars was catching me up , but there wasn’t, I pulled over , my gut feeling said drive keep driving , but my head said no go back people will be hurt you might be able to help, I could help know one, people burned alive in there cars. It was the worst car smash ever on a motorway. As I tried to help, cars were still crashing into each other, the cars were on fire and it was so hot,
As I stood there just watching in total shock, this police car speeding down the motorway coming towards me on the inside lane, so they was heading towards me, I thought gosh there not going to able to stop, but they did as I turned round this car exploded went up in the air and over me, now if I had not been watching the cop car drive so fast, I would of seen this car exploding and run for it then It would of hit me for sure, someone was looking after me, I was lead to a safe spot by the police, I was shaking and stunk of smoke, in fact I was black with smoke, I walked to my car sat there stunned and waited, as the police said don’t go know where as I needed to be seen my the ambulance , and give a statement. I was treated for shock and inhalation,
All of this happened in slow motion, it seemed to go on for hours, but it was 20 minutes if that, it was several hours before I was aloud to drive home. When I got home I looked at my clock and it said 9, 15 pm this was the time I had left my house to leave in the morning. There were so many warnings I had about driving that day and I ignored them all, I got up late, I slipped in the shower at 7 and thought then, I am not going. The dog run off on our walk, so i was going to be late and thought again I won’t go.
After the dog walk I got this spay to spay on his fur, he is westie dog pure white and the spay brings his fur back good again, the nozzle was pointing the wrong way and it sprayed in my face and eyes so I ran to the sink splashed water on my face, my make up was well smudged I had to do it all again, I ran my friends and said today is just not happening I will come tomorrow, they said please please come today , feeling really bad I said ok.
There really was no time this day in my life , everything was slow motion, I am sure that I died in that accident in one of my other life’s ,and this life i managed to escape it, and im sure I have escaped it before another life. I just hope I continue to cheat it again. I have had a lot of near death experiences in my life ,im rambling again lol.

zenna said...

I must add that I don’t know why I turned that last comment into a comment on time; it was ment to be about rebirth, You are right Anthony it is a memory, I feel like I have died in some situations before, it is a memory like you say, but I carry on living. So each life I live is not the same even though I am still me, weird. I no what I am trying to say I just cant put into the right words lol.

Jesamyn said...

Once again, ,fascinating stuff.... and as told to you before, Susan Marie sent me your book, and I may have to rely on her once again, to send what I have now heard will be a second book...perhaps you should investigate the Australian market.... As I told you we met on a grief site, and I found myself looking for answers in sooo many ways, lucid dreams; meditation, mirror gazing which Dr Moody has experimented with, a 10 day course to contact the Departed Loved one etc and none worked... what I am waffling on about is that so many books that I have devoured over my lifetime give exercises one can do as in Astral Travel (which DID work) and Lucid Dreaming (ditto). ARE THERE ANY WAYS AND MEANS WE COULD PRECIPITATE our next time around to do things differently or must we wait until Death??? Could you perhaps do a mini book i.e. ITLAD for DUMMIES style???? Oh by the way, Susan Marie, good joke!!!! one to scare future kids with ,The Ferryman will Get You!!! or May you be Without a bag of coins at Rivers Edge!!! Highest regards as ever, Jesamyn.

Anthony Peake said...

"ITLAD For Dummies" sounds like an interesting idea. Maybe I could take out most of the supporting material and just present the theory itself. Indeed my publisher has suggested that we think about a 'how to contact your Daemon' type book.

I will give this some thought.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Hi Jesamyn,
Interesting to hear that you also are able to Lucid Dream and Astrally Project.
Can I ask, as part of my own research, whether you have any sleep problems (Insomnia, Narcolepsy, difficulty getting to sleep etc). And also if you have any TLE symptoms, or migraines/bad headaches?
Will be interesting to hear your comments.
Karl

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony:
Idea for book title (don't listen to those Publishers again.)
*smile*
"Exactly HOW to Cheat The Ferryman: A guide to pulling off life's greatest gamble."

susan marie said...

Zenna; Your post was most appreciated, thank you for it.
Karl and Jesamyn; I am glad that you caught my humor regarding the Ferryman, and Karl your film idea is brilliant; surely some producer will want to roll with it? Also to Karl: Are you absolutely certain you have not experienced deja vu? Perhaps to you it feels like a slowing down of time, or you use different words to describe it? Think, Karl, think!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Hi Susan Marie
Have you had any more dreams about me recently?
*cheeky smile*
Now, Deja Vu, no absolutely not. I have neither experienced Deju Vu nor true Time Dilation, except while possibly waiting to be served at the bar in certain pubs where it seems an eternity to be served.
I have talked to dozens and dozens of Mental Illness sufferers as my own research into Time Dilation and some of the incidents related to me are astonishing (I have given details of many to Tony previously).
I am a theoretical person, I am fascinated in theory and ideas. I don't need empirical evidence to accept something. The epistomological side of me is dominant.
I do however wish I could experience Deja Vu as I would think(!) the feelings could be similar to my own Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projections (both which only happen in sleep so the link is obviously a conscious/subconscious one as Deja Vu occurs in wakeful hours).
I am smiling at your "think, Karl, think" comment, as most people who know me shout "STOP THINKING KARL, STOP THINKING."
*Hee Hee*

susan marie said...

Well, Karl; I suppose I'll have to take your word for it, then. I will keep you posted regarding your appearance in my dreams. Do not think your quip regarding time-dilation and English pubs went unnoticed: it is very Wildean (as per Oscar Wilde). Also, as I wrote the part urging you to think, it did seem some inner voice protested, suggesting that, good lord, this is the last person whom you should urge to do so. Very best wishes--SM

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Well, Susan Marie, I am often compared to the now legendary Mr Wilde, mostly for complimentary reasons thankfully.

susan marie said...

Then I am rather astute to have made the comparison so quickly.

Jesamyn said...

WOW!!! QUITE A WONDERFUL EXCHANGE GOING ON HERE!!! I GREATLY ENJOY READING ALL. KARL., I AM A BIT LATE RE ASTRAL TRAVEL AND LUCID DREAMS,SORRY. WORKING INTRUDES ON MY REAL LIFE!!!I USED ASTRAL TRAVEL AND LUCID DREAMS 18 YEARS AGO WHEN RETREATING A LITTLE FROM REAL LIFE BUT IT HAS BEEN DORMANT SINCE THEN AS I HAD A HAPPY RELATIONSHIP WHICH HAS NOW ENDED DUE TO MY PARTNERS DEATH. I DO NOT REMEMBER ANY HEADACHES HOWEVER...JUST THAT WONDERFUL"IT REALLY WORKS"!! FEELING. SUSAN MARIE, I FIND EVERY COMMENT YOU MAKE INTERESTING,RELEVANT AND EXTREMELY INSIGHTFUL,YOU ARE OVIOUSLY A YOUTHFUL, CLEVER, AND WELL-EDUCATED PERSON WHO GRASPS ALL CONCEPTS INSTANTLY.VIVA THIS SITE!!!!!!
IN AWE AND ESTEEM AS EVER,
JESAMYN.

susan marie said...

THANK YOU as ever, Jesamyn- but you are far too kind to me.