Saturday, 16 February 2008

FREE WILL

As a delver in to Lucid Dreams I wish to ask What is Free will or even Should We Dare to be Master of Dreams.....
As mentioned to Anthony before, I was a traveller in Lucid Dreams years ago, when in a very stressful Life Situation. I Retreated into and practiced Lucid Dreams and for reasons unknown to me now!!!! I selected Elton John as the recipient of those dreams!!!!OK.... for the first few dreams I recognised and welcomed Elton as a friend and Confidante..... the dream actually showed him with arms outstretched and smiling at me, and also picking me up for a meeting in Bentley car which was true to every detail despite my lack of knowledge of cars...I looked it up later.... anyway as the Dreams progressed , he grew increasingly reluctant and sulky... in the last one he was drinking Vodka and Orange... and I swear I even smelled that drink!!... and he would not speak... are we Imposing too much upon their Psyches??? are we wrong to do this? hey Karl and Hurly and Susan and of course Anthony!!!! please give your views!!!!
Ever interested and appreciative...... Jesamyn.

14 comments:

Karl L Le Marcs said...

It's a little bit funny!
*sorry*
Jesamyn, as a co swimmer in the sea of Lucid Dreams I can fully empathise with you. Maybe my "Rachael" is just dear old Reg Dwight in a dress!
*bottom lip sticks out in ponder*
As to free-will, well, taking it from the viewpoint of Tony's book, the CTF theory doesn't necessarily lead to predestination as the "Virgin Life" lived is merely a blueprint to which modifications can be made during replays of the panoramic life review.
I believe that dreaming is our consciousness unrestrained by the control placed on it in waking life by society. In dreams we are free to surf the waves. Those, like you and I, lucky enough to Lucid Dream and actually control them can, I think, touch upon a deeper reality that is kept distance from waking consciousness.
As I posted previously in "Last Night I Dreamt I Went To Mandalay Again", I've known Rachael (the girl I meet in my Lucid Dreams) for 15 years or so now, and if/when I ever meet her in waking consciousness I truly expect to fall out of time myself at that moment as that would be my first ever experience of waking precognisance or Deja Vu - I postulate as this is my "Virgin Life".
BUT even though you, Jesamyn, may be on one of an eternal number of returns (ignoring the Cantor argument for a sec), your blueprint life, if you like, can be modified, and it is your Daemonic/Eidolonic relationship that assists in your path. Maybe your Daemon, for some deep psychological reason, chose Elton John to communicate with you in your Lucid Dreams as mine has chosen Rachael. The difference here to my mind is that your Lucid Deamon is pre-known to you whereas mine is not. You "know" of an Elton John in waking consciousness, I do not know of "Rachael" in anything other than dream. This would suggest to me that you are not a virgin lifer and that the opportunities to alter your blueprint are right before your eyes.
*smile*
"I hope you don't mind that I put down in words;
How wonderful life is while you're in the world."

susan marie said...

Jesamyn; I was going to wax philosophical, but as Karl has taken it upon himself to post you such lovely remarks, I shall remain silent. All too silent. An icy silence. Get it??????? Oh, and BIODH, while you are at it.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie, dear, please don't let little me stop you from posting your remarks. I, for one, always thoroughly enjoy the brief opportunities to share your mind-patterns and your thoughts.
So come on, let us know what you think.
*smile and sneeky hug*

susan marie said...

Alright, as you are being so sweet, Karl. I have never had a lucid dream, but it seems to me that they must belong to the psychic class which Jung described as "active imagination", and which serve as portals to the Daemonic or unconscious realms. The figures which appear in them are activated archetypes; at once subjective and objective. I have now lost my train of thought. . .

Karl L Le Marcs said...

*Arrrrggggghhhh*
Don't call me sweet! The word follows me around like a sodden kitten.
*smile*
Jung understood that wholeness results from establishing a working relationship between the conscious and the unconscious levels of the psyche. The psyche, he believed, is purposive. If the material arising from unconscious levels is carefully attended to, it can move us toward greater balance, health, and creativity.
The ego does not abdicate its role in this process. It is needed to maintain a coherent sense of self that is not overcome by an uncontrolled upwelling of unconscious contents. It exercises a selective function, choosing what to attend to, and deciding when and in what way to act. Thus the conscious and unconscious levels of the psyche enter an ongoing dynamic relationship with each other in which both are essential. Active imagination is a wonderfully creative way of enabling and deepening this inner dialog.
Active imagination differs sharply from daydreaming, in which the conscious mind simply watches the show without participation or reflection. In contrast, the process of active imagination is a demanding one requiring the full cooperation of the participating ego even when the ego does not understand.
So I agree with you to a major extent.
*looks around for ways to be anything other than "sweet"*

susan marie said...

KARL: Actually, I do not find you sweet at all. I was lying, merely being polite. I find you sardonic and shrewd and cunning and diabolical and Wildean and meanspirited in the British sense and egomaniacal. Also quick to take offense, sarcastic and rivalrous. Quick to wrath, and slow to forgive. Charming and handsome. Akin to Peake, and approaching his greatness. Nietzschean, to a fault. But I wonder if lucid dreams are denied to some of us for a reason? What would that reason be???

Karl L Le Marcs said...

That's a much better description of me !
Add a little Dostoyevsky, some Lenin, much Monty Python and a deep spiritual romanticism and you're almost there.
I doubt Lucid Dreams are "denied" to any of us, I simply suspect, as in any ability, some are more adept than others. I often neglect my ability by simply using it to lounge about in Camden with Rachael when I could be seeking answers to the deepest metaphysical concepts. This tells me that my ego is happiest in pubs (which it is).
One technique to train the subconscious to become more aware of dreams is to set your alarm for an hour before you need to get up. By interrupting your sleep in this fashion you are much more likely to remember the dreams you have in that one hour than at any other time.
And, weirdly, I find that once awake (given the rarity of sleep in my case anyway), DO NOT MOVE. If you lie still with your eyes closed (in effect still closing yourself off from conscious observation) you should(!) find that images and memories from your dream return to you. For a psychological reason which I won't go into here, once you move your body and open your consciousness to the empirical world, your dream images fade very quickly.
BUT, practicising this dream awareness can lead to shifting this awareness actually into the dream itself thereby allowing one to Lucid Dream.
Try it, and let me know what happens.
*hugs*

ken said...

I've not had much experience with Lucid Dreaming. I have had a few dreams where I was aware that I was dreaming but it did not last long enough to direct it.

I have done some Jungian dream analysis and one way to look at your dream is to interpret every dream character as a part of yourself. So, Sir Elton's becoming "reluctant and sully" could be a part of you becoming reluctant and sully.

Also, your waking associations and "feelings" about characters and objects in your dream are how you should involve them in the dream. When discussing a dream a man had in which there was a "simple peasant house," Jung asked him his associations to the house and the man said it was a leprosery near Basil. So, says Jung, the dreamer is in a leprosery and "has, as it were, a revolting contagious disease; he is an outcast from human society."

I do not think that it is possible to "impose too much upon our Psyches." According to Jung, dreams have a compensatory function. They are a natural reaction of the self-regulating psychic system.

susan marie said...

KEN: Yes, you have articulated what I was trying to say. Lucid dreams would appear to be psychic contents that the dreamer is actually "swimming in"; an objectification of one's own psyche. Elton John becoming distant was the psyche saying "No", perhaps to the habit of retreating into lucid dreams as an escape. But I do believe there may be synchronicity with these contents in the future (i.e., Anthony feeling that Karl is destined to meet the girl of his lucid dreams, his Rachael, at some point in reality ).

Hurlyburly said...

Please find my response as a new post above! ;0)

Anthony Peake said...

I agree with Karl that Lucid Dreaming is, in some way, a communication channel opening up across the Multiverse and allowing the eidolon access to alternative scenarios that exist out there as both potentials and actuals (if that makes sense). My interest is whether these dreams are Daemon-motivated or just accidental 'leakages' across the multiverse.

An associate of mine in the SMN, Dr Tony Obaye, is doing post doctoral research in both lucid dreaming and sleep paralysis. I am sure he would be very interested in these comments. I will mention these postings next time I see him.

Jesamyn said...

karl, thank you for your comments you made me laugh!!!!! well if Rachael and Reg are one and the same person then Anthony can envisage a whole new book!!!! or maybe I will.... Do you find that in Lucid Dreams, it starts off in a sweet, familiar way? i.e. when I met Elton, it would start by going down a wonderfully familiar passageway and me thinking YES HERE WE ARE AGAIN!!! etc. regards Jesamyn.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Ken, Susan Marie and Anthony,
Thank you for your comments, I am, as ever, merely theoreticising and chucking ideas up in the air - it allows me to let them escape from my overcrowded head.
*smile*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

And Jesamyn,
I'm glad I can make you laugh
*slides over to Jesamyn's barstool clutching two dry martinis*
As to your question: In waking life I read waaaay-hey-hey too much, and when dreaming it feels natural for me to pick up a book but in dreams you cannot read - at least not full sentences or narrative. You may well pick up headlines or signs etc but not literary constructions. So when I have realised I am dreaming (owing to being unable to read a book) I jump on the train and head to my beloved Camden Town and the Cuban Bar (thankfully one not affected by the recent fires) near the old Mandalay stall in the market. And after a short while Rachael comes in and we have a drink and a natter then I finish my drink and say "Let's Go", and Rachael says the thing that will identify her to me for real someday.........
Maybe !
*smile*