Wednesday, 2 July 2008

death clock...
In India many families match horoscopes before arranging marriages, to see if there is compatibility between the girl and the boy... girls who are expected to be widowed( death of husband before the wife)are sometimes made to marry a tree!
This death clock is good for them!
Question: Would YOU like to know when you are going to die?


Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: NO, thank you!

I think the focus should be on the living aspect of existence.

roshni said...

karl, i agree with u!absolutely!

roshni said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
johar said...

Hi Roshni,

Thought provoking question.

There are a lot of people in the world who already know their time is limited even if they don't know exactly when they are going to die. I think they would rather focus on living for each precious moment rather than dwelling on their final one.

And NO I most definitely don't want to know. I'm just happy and amazed daily to be here, why would I want to spoil that!

ra from ca said...

Marry a tree? Sorry what does that mean?

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Ra from Ca:

Bad Karma? Marry A Tree

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Indian Feminists Despair As Film Star Marries a Tree

woodsprite said...

I think life is for living and certainly that is where my focus is (and should be). However, lots of mystics have been able to predict the time of their death and it can be thought of as part of being enlightened. Death is a natural event and simply a step along a path.

As for marrying a tree! It seems a bit drastic to have to chop down a tree (especially a beautiful pepal tree) in order to try to cheat a prophesy.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Would make an interesting Family Tree though!

*oh how we all chuckled*

woodsprite said...

Karl: Ooooh! *winces*

roshni said...

yes, its really mean... (doesnt a tree have life? wat are they thinking?) ....but India is India..

Anthony Peake said...

If CTF is correct then all human beings that are experiencing life within the Bohmian IMAX will have an element of their consciousness that does know the day of their death - The Daemon. It is interesting to reflect on whether the Daemon knows the exact moment of death because, as we know, that 'moment' is never actually reached or experienced. However for all intents and purposes the Daemon will be aware that 'death' (in the sense that a new 'past-life review') will take place on a particular day. I argue that this is why certain individuals are able to predict the their own time of death.

Of course this can all get very interesting. If, as we have discussed many times on this blog, any Daemonic induced 'life mutation' takes place (such as a hunch that is actioned upon or a dream warning that is listened to) then both the Daemon and the Eidolon move onto a different life track. However, within the MWI (MMI), there will exist a personal Daemon who will know the outcome of that new life.

Some fascinating ideas spin off from this suggestion ....

johar said...

Tony, Can you elaborate a little on your last paragraph as I'm a bit confused.

I understand that when the Eidolon and Daemon move to a different life track the current Daemon has no idea of the future.

I also understand that there is another Daemon within the MMI/MWI that does know the outcome, so me, here, as I am now, would that 'knowing' Daemon become part of my duality?


Anthony Peake said...

Now it seems that I have confused things again as regards the nature of the daemon as it functions both within the Bohmian IMAX and Multiple Universes. Now please remember that what I say is pure supposition. I do not know that what I write is correct ... it is only my interpretation of the 'facts' as I see them.

If a person exists within the Bohmian IMAX (i.e. they are at the moment of death in their 'Virgin Life') they are experiencing a minute-by-minute three dimensional virtual-reality recording of their VL. This is similar to the Matrix in that the experiencer cannot tell it from the real thing.

Now, if it is a 'recording' then it cannot be changed just like we cannot change the plot of a movie. This is identical to Nietzche's "Eternal Reccurence" and Ouspensky's variation on this. It is rigid and deterministic in that the subject will live an identical life over and over again with absolutely no changes. This is what drove Nietzche mad - the idea of no escape from this grinding repetition. The same mistakes will be made over and over again for all eternity. This is too horrible to contemplate. We observe in the world about us (or at least in our VL) that change is to be found as a central fact of nature. Things develop, adapt and move on. The central ethos of evolution is this very fact. To me the idea that human consciousness cannot evolve in the same way makes no sense.

If we accept the general rationalist position we live just one life and then cease to exist. To me this is a massive waste of 'life experience' and is therefore counter to progress (showing my teleological world view again). CTF suggests otherwise but unless there is a facility for change within the Bohmian IMAX then each life is simply a facsimile, a copy with also no progress. Indeed this makes CTF in its raw form even more depressing than having just one life.

I suggest that each life re-run within the IMAX will show iterative changes - what I like to term "Daemon Induced Temporal Mutations". By this I mean that a Daemon, by involving itself in the life of its Eidolon - by making the Eidolon take a different course of action - in doing so brings about a real change in the life of its Eidolon. This change is, on the face of it, impossible. If the IMAX is a simple recording then change in the "screenplay" simply cannot happen.

This is where the Many-Worlds (Many-Minds) comes in. If MWI is correct then there are trillions of Jo's all of whom have lived subtly different lives. Each Jo, is, in a very real sense, you. Now each of these Jo's will, after their VL exist in their own Bohmian IMAX (or life movie). Each of these recordings will be subtly or massively different to each other. If viewed all together they will follow every possible avenue that 'your' life as "Super Jo" can follow. All these alternative lives exist, enfolded within each other in David Bohm's "Enfolded" Implicate Order.

Now, and this is the important point, all these Jo's consist of a Daemon and an Eidolon. Within the Multiverse exists a "Super Jo Eidolon" and a "Super Jo Daemon". Again these are, in a very real sense, you, but with regard to the Super Daemon, fully aware of every potential twist and turn that your life could tike within the Enfolded Implicate Order. This Daemon is aware of everything.

So when your Daemon has you make a different choice than last time it makes you switch from the IMAX of the Jo who made one decision to the Jo that made the other. All your potential futures are out their existing outside of time (which only exists in the mind of the experiencer). But in that 'new' IMAX exists a Daemon that knows what will happen next within this re-run.

Now for me I am not sure if the knowledge of the Super-Daemon is available to your everyday Daemon (or in fact, that the "Super Daemon" and the "everyday" Daemon are identical - indeed I quite like this idea. It would explain how a Daemon can make multiple Temporal Mutations).

Does this "stream of consciousness" make any sense? I know what I mean but I am not sure if my collection of mixed metaphors manage it.

johar said...

Thank you Tony, An excellent explanation and one you've given before to help me so I appreciate your patience.

It is not you confusing things , it is me getting myself confused whilst trying to grasp the intricacies of the theory.

Thanks again.

Anthony Peake said...

JO: We are all expanding and enriching this theory as we go along. I thank you for having me try to put my own thoughts down in writing. There really are so many angles to CTF and ITLAD it really enthralls me.

johar said...

It enthralls me also Tony.

Some of the articles Karl posts on Sunday take you to the Scientific American website. The top tool bar shows each section available and I have been able to incorporate your theory in every single section.

Like you said, many angles!

johar said...

This idea of a Daemon and Super Daemon makes me think of Gnostic beliefs. I see parallels with the demiurge and Tetragrammaton.

Anthony Peake said...

JO: I am of the opinion that the Gnostics did have hidden gnosis and I really believe that this was an awareness of the Daemon-Eidolon Dyad and the Bohmian IMAX. Of course they used different terms but the underlying philosophy is identical. Within the Gnostic groupings I include the Kabbalists, The Sufis, The Cathars, the Manicheans among others. This dangerous belief was, in my further opinion, the real "Holy Grail"!

It is fairly well known that Jungian psychoanalysis is firmly based within the Gnostic tradition. For example who was Jung's "Philomen" if not a manifestation of his Daemon! (and of course his preoccupation with synchronicity)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: You and I can explain all the 'Bohmian Mutation' elements of the theory very simply once we add CtCw to ITLAD and CTF.

Without CtCw it has some problems, but with it there comes a logical, mathematical, philosophical and yet scientifically accurate Uber Theory.

I think you and I should work on publishing a collaborative article on this very subject (will speak to you about it tomorrow)

And thank you for saying:
"For example who was Jung's "Philomen" if not a manifestation of his Daemon"

As it is a perfect cue for my gag..............*cough*

You're only as Jung as you Philemon!

*Psychoanalytical chuckles*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Johar: Within the theory, you are always a dual consciousness, aside from the Virgin Life and possibly the Ultimate Life (if you accept my assertion that the recurrences can not be eternal).

The Daemon-Eidolon Dyad consists of The Eidolon (being that part of your subjective consciousness that is experiencing its life in real time (although holographically within the Bohmian IMAX)), and The Daemon (that part of your subjective consciousness that has lived this past life review before).

Now, within CtCw I can take ITLAD/CTF into the Many Minds Interpretation to take ITLAD/CTF away from Solipsism and thus into the realm of trillions of separate but concurrent minds (universes), each living trillions of lives within their own subjective consciousness (Bohmian IMAX), all creating quantum entanglements with each other across time and space, interracting as memories of EVERYTHING and EVERYONE on the objective consciousness wave.

Remember the multi-dimensional Venn Diagram analogy I took you through once?

And lastly, whilst you are right in your statement of seeing parallels between Daemon/Super Daemon theory with that of the Demiurge (not to be confused with fancying the ex wife of Bruce Willis), I don't think Tetragrammaton comes into it, as that is the secret power word of the hebrew God!! But that's probably my Occultic training that is opposing that!

EVERYONE: And finally, this Sunday's ITLADic Science Service is going to be amazing, there have been so many fantastic news stories this week already (I have a "short" list of 44 to narrow down over the weekend)

woodsprite said...

Tony/Karl: Thank you for those explanantions. It has helped me enormously - and with the super Mario analagy as well I can now visualise the "flipping" from one universe to another.

*Goes away singing about "Mother-flipping" a la Flight of the Conchords*

woodsprite said...

Karl: I can't wait till Sunday! Wahooo!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: OMG!!!
Flight of the Conchords are FABO!!!
"The Most Beautiful Girl In The Room" is my favourite.

But anyway *straightens diamante tie* Glad to be of assistance!

And yes, Sunday will be good I think, everyone is invited.