Sunday, 6 July 2008

The Week’s Most ITLADic Scientific News Volume 4 (Top 5) EXTRA

Everyday is like Sunday! Everday is ITLADic and so I say, here we go again with the ITLADic Sunday Service!

If anyone doesn’t know, this is my regular round-up of the week’s most ITLADic Scientific News for everyone to enjoy reading through and comment upon, with your thoughts, interpretations and questions.

Once again it was very difficult to narrow the plethora of papers and reports this week down to a Top 5 and I add some EXTRA links in certain areas of ITLAD for you to pick and choose your own areas of particular interest.

Before we begin, if anyone has not read my post from last night on the AMAZINGLY ITLADic episode of Doctor Who in the UK then please read it and watch the video I have included, and comment accordingly.

> Turn Left [by Karl L Le Marcs] <

Please find below links to a summary of this week’s Top 5 items.

1. Mind's Eye Influences Visual Perception

2.
Neuroscientists Take Important Step Towards Mind Reading

3.
Cot Death Risk "Higher For Babies With Imbalance Of Mood Chemical"

4.
Scientists Set Out To Measure How We Perceive Naturalness

5.
Spiritual Effects Of Hallucinogens Persist, Researchers Report

The Unexplained:
100 years ago this week “something” fell to Earth in Siberia causing mass devastation. What was it?

Here are the best three articles from this week’s reporting of this unexplained anniversary.


> The Tunguska Mystery - 100 Years Later <
> Aliens Or Asteroid? What Was The Blast Of 1,000 Hiroshimas? <
> What Hit Siberia 100 Years Ago? Tunguska Event Still Puzzles Scientists <

And for the EXTRA section I include the following from many aspects of research. As with last week, some of these are fairly specialised but given the diversity of people here I’m sure there will be something of interest for everyone.

Publishing: New Book
> The Mirror Neuron: Exploring What Makes Humans Social <

Experimental Philosophy:
> Experimental Philosophy Explores Real-Life Dilemmas <

Mental Health:
> Migraine Mutations Clues To Biological Basis Of Disorder <

Large Hadron Collider:
> If The Large Hadron Collider Produced A Microscopic Black Hole, It Probably Wouldn't Matter! <

Quantum Physics:
> Physicists Create Millmeter-Sized "Bohr Atom" <

Evolutionary Psychology:
> Women Have A Better Memory For Faces And Words <
> Charades Reveals A Universal Sentence Structure <

Neurology:
> New Map IDs The Core Of The Human Brain <

Cosmology/Astrophysics:
> Einstein Was Right, Astrophysicists Say <

Most ITLADic item of the week on other BLOGS:
> Occupational Arrows Of Time <

And finally, this T-Shirt just made me giggle!!!

I will be available most of Sunday to answer any questions you have on these articles and to discuss the implications within ITLADic Philosophy.

I will place my own interpretation of the articles throughout the day in the comments section.

I hope we can generate as interesting a discussion as we have on previous Sundays and if you haven’t been involved before then you are more than welcome to add your thoughts.

If you missed the previous Top 5s then click here (for week 1) here (for week 2) and here (for last week)

Happy Sunday Service, and please place your opinions, questions and observations in the comments section for all to discuss.

A Dark Philosopher
Karl L Le Marcs

[Addendum: From comments and emails received by some bloggers, apparently once a post has received 200 comments, it then splits into an alternate parallel comment box!! So when you look at the comments, only the first 200 will appear. You will notice at the top and bottom of the 1st and 200th comments there is a new area that says "1-200 of xxx Newer > Newest >>", if you click on Newest, you will be taken to a new box that contains all the comments from #201 onwards. Thank You for such a phenomenal response and wonderful discussion.]

267 comments:

1 – 200 of 267   Newer›   Newest»
Karl L Le Marcs said...

Oh, and please let me know if any of the links are not working and I will repair it.

We also have an apology for absence from Johar who is holidaying with her family this weekend and is a bit miffed that she will miss the discussions, but she asked me to say that she will be commenting on Monday, so let’s give her plenty to read through for when she gets back!

And Tony has said he hopes to join us this week (complete with Golden Tan!), providing his router is behaving itself, which it hasn’t been over the last couple of days.

I look forward to hearing all your thoughts and comments.

A Dark Professor!
Karl L Le Marcs

(Ph.D ITLADic Studies)
Ha!

Robin said...

*pinches nose closed and squints her eyes as she jumps in feet first*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: Welcome into the ITLADic pool, oversized armbands are available. Am looking forward to hearing some of your thoughts.

SM Kovalinsky said...

A Dark Professor has a beautiful ring to it. I cannot believe what you have managed to put together, you are running a Sunday seminar, and you might rake in some real tuition bucks on the public market (perhaps should not give you that idea, as you will leave us)------
When I have woken up and gotten Andrew up, I would love to read all and comment---like that experimental philosophy; I swear, you are organizing a sophisticated symposium here, and maybe at some point you can do this at a University as a weekend adjunct, and watch that tuition pour in (that is what FDU does over here, has a college of weekend studies and seminars)---ok, I have to wake up. Sorry for rambling on. . .

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Good Morning to New Jersey!

Thanks for the tuition revenue idea, I shall send out invoices at the close of the Sunday Service!
*smile*

Thank You for your kind words, yes, please go and awaken young Andrew from his peaceful slumber as his input last week was wonderful also.

Tony and I have discussed organising a "Consciousness Weekend" comprising a seminar, mini lectures and much ale-induced ITLADic banter in a remote country house for two days somewhere, somewhen, so hopefully we can put something together to bring this online Sunday Service into reality.

Robin said...

The 'ITLAD Sunday Service Road Show'. Look for tour dates in your area soon! Perfect!

No. 1 article....
"These findings suggest a potential mechanism by which top-down expectations or recollections of previous experiences might shape perception itself"

Deja Vu? Deja Vecu?

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: re article #1 (Mind's Eye Influences Visual Perception), YES, Deja Vu, Deja Vecu, Deja Senti, Deja Visite etc etc. There was MUCH in this article that struck me as ITLADic (hence it's number 1 status in the Top 5), for example:

"We found that imagery leads to a short-term memory trace that can bias future perception"

'Short-term memory trace that can bias future perception'?? (THE DAEMON)

There are many more in this article but I'll see what bits other bloggers comment on.

Robin said...

So Karl, are you saying mental imagery is initiated by the daemon and causes bias of the eidolon?

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: Not sure about "bias" but in ITLAD/CTF theory certainly "guidance"

Robin said...

No. 2

Another step closer to reading and manipulating the cranial hard drive. Puts me in mind of the 'memory erasers' in Eternal Sunshine...

Andrew Giancarlo said...

Good morning to you Herr Docter Professor Lemarcs haha andthe class rises to its feet! Hows that for not calling you sir.Man I am going to have to hone in on the best three as i have both to work tody and visit my dad at the semitary,thank you so much for your fantatic suday servies.Iwill do my best.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: re article #2 (Neuroscientists Take Important Step Towards Mind Reading), excellent, thank you, this allows me to place a link to a previous post:

Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind
[by Hurlyburly]


Now, if you consider this article #2, not solely within ITLAD/CTF but also within my CtCw then my Quantum Entanglement of Subjective Consciousness theory takes on a new dimension.

SM Kovalinsky said...

I was able to read through #5 quickly and I do think this also applies to these experiences which are similar but not produced by any hallucinogens. James in his essay on noetic experience does state that the effects are long lasting, and we know also in NDE research that the same has been said. I will move on to another. . .

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Andrew: Guten Morgen Herr Kovalinsky! Please be seated!

Thank you for avoiding the "S" word!
*smile*

I hope you find something of interest to you in the links, I feel sure that you will.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh, I do like #1 and I know psychology has delved deeply into this idea of perception and imagination, and the creation of a future bias. Very interesting, and there have been studies about the use of imagination and visualization techniques precisely to alter perception, and psychological perception most of all.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: article #5 yes, it was very interesting to me this article, as one who has never taken any of these mind-altering drugs. After all, if there is anyone who does NOT need their mind expanding it is me!!
*smile*

I agree that the experiences produced need not have an hallucinogenic causality, but if we are living within a BOHMIAN IMAX then of course the effects are ALL hallucinations anyway!!
*strokes chin*

Wonderful interpretation SMK, thank you.

"Drugs are bad, mmmm'kay"
- Mr Mackey (South Park)

Andrew Giancarlo said...

I forgot you speak all those languages!Mom took 1 and 5 so i took number 2,that is something the use of MRI scans and I like the idea of mind reading i think I do it. The article closes with the idea that without proper brain theory understanding willn not advance and be piles of data,so researches like you Professor are what we need!

Robin said...

Not to mention the "pick a card, any card" trick I recently heard on a radio show! *grins*

On No. 2 Karl, Will you please elaborate on how these new findings enhance your theory?

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Yes indeed, article #1 is supremely ITLADic isn't it?

Altered states of perception and consciousness from Lucid Dreaming, through Migraine to Bipolar and Schiozophrenia all show the Doors Of Perception from ajar to being blasted from its hinges on the "scale of transcendence" as Tony terms it.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Well, Professor, did you notice I remarked on #1 as well? And now I shall on #4: This seems to have the VR and Bohmian IMAX implicit in it. I think I may have to wake up a bit more so that I can be truly focused, and will give it another read-through.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh my god! Please accept my apologies, I am so hasty and chided you and you as usual were right on top of it; I can feel your wrath leap forth like lightening now. I will go wake up and do a proper comment on some of the others. So, so sorry; so terribly sorry.

Anthony Peake said...

Good Morning all - and my thanks to KLLM for a wonderful contribution to this blog.

Now, weird synchronicity time. Yesterday morning I went to have my hair cut (well, not cut as much as shorn - there is not a great deal to of creativity to "A number two all over").

My local barbers is run by a lady who has shown great interest in itlad and CTF. Indeed last time I was there she told me that her boyfriend predicted his own death to the day and described the circumstances).

Yesterday I was chatting to her partner in the business. She had not met me before and was chatting about her recently born twins. She then mentioned in passing about the way her last child had died of cot death. We had a long chat about this and she was telling me about some of the latest theories as to why this may happen.

It was only then that her business partner asked me about how my lectures were going. She then asked me what I wrote about. I explained as best I could and then we discussed the implications of cot death with regard to my theory.

Both ladies took my business card and said that they would take a look at this blog today.

And what do we get .... an article on cot death!!!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Andrew: I love the imagery of the family Kovalinsky deligating certain members to certain articles.
*smile*

And I agree yes, that in order to progress any theory of consciousness, there has to be a strong Neurological basis, which of course ITLAD does have.

Jesamyn said...

Okay.... I like Mirror Neurons!!! Anyone who has worked with children(I know,Karl we agreed we are not fans of the critters!!)but I did work as a Kindergarten Teacher once, and it is so, so easy to lead them in to thought processes, as it is with animals, a kind and generous and enlightened Spirit can make a World of Difference to these Innocents, and I wish I could do it on a daily basis....obversely, yes, we are being de-sensitised to violence and bizarre situations... the kids now accept readily almost ANYTHING and nothing seems really real....a Virtual Reality really does seem to loom in the future..
Jesamyn.

Robin said...

No. 5
"What the psychedelic experience really is, is opening the doorway into a lost continent of the human mind, a continent we have almost lost all connection to, and the nature of this lost world of the human mind is that it is a Gaian Entelechy" ~Terrence McKenna, "Archaic Revival"

McKenna says, "The way out is back, and the future is a forward escape into the past"

I've never consumed hallucinogens but it does sound like a very ITLADic trip, huh? Loss of the buffer that keeps the Eidolon from being exposed to the full force of the Daemon. Yes Karl, I'm thinking you're not a candidate!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: Ah yes!! One of my frequent dalliances with the Radio waves!!

*smile*

I shall add a comment regarding your question to article #2 shortly.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh, I really like that one in the Extras section of Experimental Philosophy. I would love to read their Manifesto! I truly have an attraction toward the idea of delving into human understanding and its application of perception into ethics and deontology. Very Nice. You Professor, are perfect to be a researcher in these areas: Not only are you precise and concise and have a solid grasp of the import of methodology, but your knowledge base is the broadest I have encountered, and you have surpassed RT McDoanld, PhD from Harvard, who I once thought knew everything. Do you know I have recently joined a new community of philosophers who call themselves Dualists, and I have been beating the drum of Peake/LeMarcs to them and am starting to see the heads turn? How is that?

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Dear Me SMK!! Allow a Professor a few minutes to read a comment and respond won't you!
*smile*

SM Kovalinsky said...

Well, would you like to hurry it up and remark on my last one, if you can get yourself in gear??? (No, that is a joke and a wild attempt to provoke said Professor so that he will take off his spectacles and hurl them and also the lecturn at my head!)----When you have time, you might be interested.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: WELCOME to our Sunday discussion for the very first time!

I'm glad you got your hair cut, you were starting to look like Rich!
*private gag*

WOW, YAS!!! What struck me about the Cot Death article was the discussion rgarding the Mood Chemicals, and this led me to contemplate Glutamate, Serotonin and Ketamine etc.

If an infant has a flood of these mood chemicals then, as within ITLAD, its subjective phaneron may fall out of time, and thus appear in our phaneron as a Cot Death!

What do you think?

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Jesamyn: G'Day Australia!

Oh I'm glad someone picked up on the Mirror Neurons Book, this looks very interesting and I intend to get it very soon.

Yes, you and I thankfully do not share the irrational desire to have little children running around and disrupting our peace, and whilst I agree that it is easier to begin to lead a child towards a thought process I do think they are far more likely to question you than an adult, hence the usual barrage of "Why".

Excellent contribution, thank you.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: re article #5, *giggles*

Wonderful quotes yes. I see consciousness as an Archipelago. We are all islands in the sea of consciousness but these islands are all connected into an cognitive archipelago (to slightly plagiarise Solzheitsyn)

Good stuff!

Anthony Peake said...

KARL: I always think that Richard would be a wonderful "Shaggy" in "Scoobie Doo". I must nag him to get involved on this blog. His invite still sits unevoked! (private joke)

The Cot Death discussion yesterday was problematic for me in that I would have had to spend hours explaining why it is that the lady's baby only died in her phaneron. I guess that this would be a far to deep conversation for a Saturday morning in Bebington Village.

I have suggested that they read my book. Indeed they may both turn up at my lecture for the Liverpool Holistic Group in two week's time.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Yes I rather thought you specifically would appreciate the Experimental Philosophy article.

There is a fascinating new science/ideology evolving in the UK at present which is being termed "Behavioural Economics" and this article fits in very well with this in my eye. It basically asserts why we ethically do things by altering our perception of our reasoning. One way we would feel uncomfortable, whereas another we would accept it.

Keep beating the drums SMK, someone is sure to listen very soon.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: *removes spectacles AND diamante encrusted mortarboard and leans imposingly across the lectern*

I read and answer each comment in chronological order. Would SMK prefer it if I just gave a YES or NO answer?
*waves finger*

*smile*

See me after class!!
*BLIMEY!!*

Robin said...

Re: the flood of neurotransmitters r/t SIDS.

Ketamine is a wild drug! Given in small doses for conscious sedation we would often use it to set broken bones at the Ski Resort's emergency clinic where I worked years ago. These patients did seem to fall out of time. They were not aware of their surroundings. In their minds they carried on with routine activities such as skiing moguls (while looking at the bumps in the ceiling)and having conversations with absent friends.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: *smiles*
Rich, if you're reading mate, come say hello. When we were last in the pub........er, ITLADic meeting hall, (you, Rich and I), after you had left to retrieve your washing *smile* Rich and I imbibed several more ales and put the world to rights, so I would love him to chuck his thoughts into the egregore.
Or Something!!

I'll try to get over for the Holistic Group meeting as I missed the last one.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Yes, that is precisely the reaction I was seeking. I do intend to keep beating those drums and I can be very persistent, exceedingly so. I will go read another. . .

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: Yes, indeed. One of the wonderful aspects of ITLAD that is often put aside by most is the Neurological effects of the neurotransmitters such as Glutamate, trickling into the brain during an NDE and literally flooding the brain during an RDE so that the subjective consciousness falls out of time.

I wonder if Tony is aware of your experiences with Ketamine through the clinic you worked at!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: En Avant SMK!

Robin said...

No. 4
Perception of what is real vs. synthetic.

Do we have the ability to perceive the reality of our 'Virgin Life' vs. the facsimile of the Bohmian IMAX?

I'm not sure I want to be that well informed.

Anthony Peake said...

No, I was not aware of the ketamine "experiences" observed by Robin. I think that this is worth a full posting young lady!!

Indeed Alex Shane (come on Alex, we need you on here) said that during his days as a night club bouncer (and, by gawd he is certainly the right build!!)he saw many clubbers experiencing similar things to those described by Robin - they particularly mentioned the "falling Out of Time" and the sensation of not being alone. Rather reminds me of the experiences reported by Michael Persinger's subjects ("The Sensed Presence").

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: article 4, WOW, exactly what I thought myself when I first read this article.

It's fascinating to the Bohmian IMAX that there is current research into sensing reality and naturalness.

Presently it is an empirical impossibility to say whether what we are currently experiencing is happening within a reality or within a Bohmian IMAX recurrence.

One wonders what it would do to perception itself if this was found to actually be empirically experimental!

WOW!!

Robin said...

T&K: I have thought about the parallels between patients given ketamine and CTF. I'll work up a post for another time.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: Excellent, we have brought some new evidence to Tony through our discussions. YAY Robin!

And ah yes the Persinger experiments are very interesting (once you get past all the criticisms surrounding them).

So linking it back to article #3 I think a neurotransmitter flood in an infant brain which they are now claiming increases the risk of cot death could be seen as enormously ITLADic not only in infants but throughout life.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: Fantastic! If you want or need any help you know I am always willing to give you a hand where I can.

Robin said...

Thank you for the helping hand Karl!

I was so drawn into this morning's seminar that I'm still at the hospital, 30 mins after the end of my shift! I need to go home and to bed to start again 11 hours from now.

One last thought before I go. About the microscopic black holes, would they or wouldn't they "matter"?

*humming*...
You set my soul alight
Muse will may or may not have "material" for a new song!
*wink*

I'll catch up to you guys later, have fun!

Robin said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: You asked how I saw article #2 within my own CtCw theory.

Well, the experiment with the photographs reminded me of a similar experiment that Dean Radin (another IONS member) has written about which shows the temporal time delay between what is observed and what is presented to consciousness.

This 'time delay' HAS to be universally comparable otherwise if you and I were watching a movie together, and a funny line was delivered, if the 'time delay' between your subjective consciousness and mine was different then one of us would be aware of the funny line before the other and this is empirically obviously false.

So, there must be an objective connection between subjective consciousness, which is where my CtCw comes in as I say we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively as collapsed particles of consciousness from the objective consciousness wave.

And thus, MIND READING is merely tapping into the Quantum Entanglement of subjective consciousness and Bohmian IMAX mutations.

I hope that makes it clear!!
*giggles*

Robin said...

Clear as a crystal ball Karl! hehehe
Thanks once more!

Oh, and one more thing. I vote we all get the Schrodinger's cat shirt to wear on these sunday mornings.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Prof. KLLM: Andrew and I must take leave of the class and excuse ourselves for a bit; will be back to continue reading and posting, thank you. I love Persinger, read him like crazy and downloaded all his essays especially his evolutionary take on NDE: spoke to Tony of him, and if memory serves, Persinger liked Tony alot.

woodsprite said...

Karl & Andrew: I've just started reading through this amazing collective thought process but was forced to giggle when I misread Karl's banter in German - I misread guten morgan as GLUTEN morgan ... altogether more apt!

Back to the serious stuff...

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: *bows respecfully*

Thank you for your wonderful contribution today, go and get some well earned sleep (*laughs at self*), and I hope to hear from you again later.

Ah the LHC yes!! Well, I've talked about the LHC on here for a while now, and it all started when one of the leading scientists casually said during an interview that when the World's largest particle accelerator is switched on later this year they do hope to answer many questions within Quantum Mechanics to the origins of matter, but that there was a 0.01% chance that it would create a microscopic black hole and a singularity that would explode and dissolve all matter instantaneously!

So, nothing to worry about then!! I love the mention at the end of the article about the two fellows in Hawaii (I wonder if Aloha Gary knows them), who have files a lawsuit against the LHC owing to existential concerns!!

How will they claim damages?
*smile*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Robin: I'm going to get one of those T-Shirts for my Gay Cat (obviously I will modify it for him by tearing the arms off it and adding some diamante sparkles)

Get some rest.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie and Andrew: Yes, the family Kovalinsky have a hall pass.

Give my regards to you know who.

And I look forward to hearing more from you here later.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: *giggles*

GLUTEN Morgan!!
I'm sure Ed would have something to say about that! Hope he finds time to join us at sometime as well.

woodsprite said...

This is so difficult! Previous weeks I have been here at the starting gun - the B of the Bang - so I could read the articles and follow the posts. Now there's so MUCH to absorb!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: *dons long black Professorial cape*
That will teach you to be in class on time young lady!!
*HA!!*
Tardiness!
*flouncess off*

woodsprite said...

Thoughts on article 1

The imagination chicken & egg conundrum. Do we imagine what we know or know what we imagine?

This is another example of how we can only know the world from our own reality. Karl's CtCw!

Anthony Peake said...

KARL: With reference to the hadron collider I am straight away reminded of the central plot device of "Mobius Dick"!

SUSAN MARIE: You mentioned me to Professor Persinger!!! I am simply blown away, even more so if you say that he liked my ideas. Michael is somebody I would really like to make contact with. Any chance that you could let him know about this blogsite? I am convinced that he will be fascinated by Itladic science... do you agree?

woodsprite said...

#2 Following on from the articles in week 1:
"Technology Unlocks the Silent Mind"
"World Record Supercomputer Mimics Human Sight"

Karl: your reply to Robin's post is very helpful. Thank you

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: article #1, yes I agree however I would say that in the Virgin Life we know what we imagine and in the Bohmian IMAXes we imagine what we know.

And I also agree that this article fits in well with my CtCw as well as with ITLAD/CTF.

Thank You.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: re LHC and Mobius Dick.

Absolutely!

I think I first told you of the LHC and the singularity issue when we were at Blue Bar one sunny afternoon, but I know we also discussed it on the now legendary THREE MEN IN A CAR journey back from the SOL meeting with Aloha Gary.

The Vacuum Point Energy Field is where I assert the Akashic Records and the objective consciousness wave exist and from where we are all collapsed particles of the universal consciousness.

And I'm sure SMK will be happy to add Persinger to the list of scholars you and I hope to make contact with in the coming weeks.

(I'll email you the action plan I mentioned during the week)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: re article #2, thank you, I'm glad my previous response to Robin helped you.

And yes I agree that this article is very interesting when taken with the two articles from week one of this Sunday Service.

See, we are builing up a cross referencing anthology of ITLADic science reports here. Another example of the wonderous things we can pull together on this blog when we try.

Anthony Peake said...

KARL: I remember the discussion(s) very clearly. Maybe this is why all our Daemons have this sense of urgency at the moment!!!

SM Kovalinsky said...

YES Of course he is; of course I will , but Tony, he already knows you, I am sure of it. . . Have to search way back a few months.

woodsprite said...

#3 Seratonin linked to cot death. This is fascinating in its own right but also leads to reflection about something in my own experience.

A while ago I got to know someone who was planning to leave his wife and four children. He told his wife, who was a good woman with strong religious convictions and a strong sense of family, that he had found somewhere else to live and that he was leaving them. The same night she died in her sleep. Post-mortem examinations could find no apparent reason for her death. The only symptom of any kind was that she had had a headache. I was always convinced that the emotional impact of that night was literally overwhelming for her. Maybe this could have been physically due to a sudden drop in seratonin and a genetic sensitivity.

In ITLADian terms, maybe her daemon had decided "Game Over" in that particular version of her life.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: Yes, and such a level of collective will and urgency must be tapped into and focused into a direction.

Susan Marie: I have a memory of you mentioning it previously also.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: re article #3, WOW, that's an interesting angle. I'm going to write that down to cogitate over tomorrow while ambling across the UK on unpredictable public transport.

Hmmmmm, yes, thank you, I already have a few ideas that have flashed into my head, and will enjoy further contemplation on this.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony and Susan Marie: re Michael Persinger.

I have found the following three previous posts where we (Tony, SMK and myself) discussed Persinger in either the actual post itself or within the comments:

Virgin Life ???
[by Karl L Le Marcs]


Palingenesia
[by Tony]


Types Of Death...
[by Hurlyburly]


I hope these help you both.

Anthony Peake said...

WOODSPRITE: What a sad story. I totally agree that this could be seen as evidence that the poor lady's Daemon had decided that her life was no over and it wanted to start again.

I find it absolutely amazing how itlad seems to explain so many things that we here about and observe.

For example I am sitting here in my living room catching up with my emails, whilst Penny sits next to me getting very excited about the Gand Prix (and she is so pleased that Def Leppard play in and out of every advert break). A few minutes ago the new Orange advert was broadcast. It is really interesting and potentially itladian. The narrator explains how everybody that influences you in your lefe are part of you. OPf course itlad suggests this and KLLM's refinement states quite explicitely, that this is literally true.

Fascinating stuff.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: "KLLM's refinement", I rather like that!! Thank You.

I don't watch adverts but I shall seek out the Orange one.

*smiles at Def Leppard*

woodsprite said...

Karl: I've caught up with the responses to #3 and of course my friend's death could be interpreted as falling out of time.

One day, no doubt, I will share the full story of which that episode is but a fascinating fraction, and how ITLAD has helped me gain an understanding.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Yes, absolutely. If you feel you would like to share the full story at some time I am sure it would make a fascinating post.
*hugs*

Anthony Peake said...

KARL: I will redefine that. I genuinely believe that your theory is much more than a simple 'refinement'. It is an advance into a very interesting and challenging area. Nay, even 'advance' is inadequate.

By the way, Penny has managed to wangle VIP tickets for the Def Leppard concert at The Liverpool Echo Arena next week (I wanted to see Counting Crows but it her job 'perk' not mine). We have been listening to all the back-catalogue of their music. Very 'poodle rock' with, unfortunately no lyrics that can be applied to itlad or CTF - but then again I am not listening that closely!!!

woodsprite said...

#5 My first thoughts were that Carlos Casteneda built a fascinating industry of writing about the transcendental effects of psilocybin (peyote buttons). The use of peyote was a way to enter the world of the shaman. I read most of the books in the 70s - perhaps I should re-read them with a new perception? (Damn - more reading!!)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: BLIMEY!! Thank You!!
Well, you know that I see it ultimately as our theory when combined.

Hope Penny is not currently thrashing around the room to both Def Leppard and Lewis Hamilton's gloriously wet win!!

I'm with you mate, I would much rather go to a Counting Crows gig but I'm also wary of attracting the wrath of Penny so I shall say no more!

*cough cough*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: re article #5, yes I know what you mean. Personally I think there is quite a lot of pretentious writing around the whole area of drug culture mind-altered states (on occasion), but when it is done well, it is done very well.

Glad to see your pile of "Too Read" books is becoming as tall as mine!

*smile*

woodsprite said...

Karl and Tony: You are a symbiotic partnership.

And you both seem quite refined!

*giggles*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: *chuckles*

"Refined"??

Like a fine wine!

Or Oil!

I'll let you decide which way around it is!

SM Kovalinsky said...

Am out the door and running behind my time----but they are Hamlet and Horatio, that team is how I view them, and where is higher refinement than that?

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: *eyes wide*

Crikey!!

Tony: We have some boards to tread!

woodsprite said...

Image of Tony and Karl treading diamante encrusted mortar boards in some sort of quasi-masonic ritual comes to mind!

*eyes wide in alarm*

Karl: Thanks for pointing out the mirror neuron article. I'll take it to work to stimulate discussion.

I suspect you have plenty of mirror neurons in that collossal brain of yours!

woodsprite said...

Experimental philosophy: Wonderful! This is bound to be fascinating. (More reading)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Oh thank you for such a compliment!

*blush*

Mirror Neuron article is amazing to me. I'd say it was ITLADic to a degree but extremely CtCwesque. I'm looking forward to getting hold of the book.

Let me know what they say at work regarding the article, Im sure Ed would be interested as well, given the Autism link.

And Experimental Philosophy, yes. We will be regailed with SMK's analysis later today on this, so I am looking forward to that. Sorry to throw in another book, but you may be interested in Behavioual Economics, and one of the best in that field is:

Predictably Irrational
[by Dan Ariely]


and here is the Mirror Neuron book

Mirroring People
[by Marco Iacoboni]

woodsprite said...

Karl: Thank you for the book titles. I wonder if the effect of flooding the brain with reading matter leads to some sort of hyper-reality. I intend to find out!

If it does, I'm sure you
are already there!

SM Kovalinsky said...

I am going back out, but can post these remarks and will add more on my return at around 2 p.m. here:

1. Experimental Philosophy: What will the Manifesto consist of? I would love to read it! A return of the discipline to its original Socratic wandering in the polis market place; I love it, and it is so Lou Marinoff! He must be involved, I am sure he had a hand in this. And they speak of a "surge in research": O, all Dark Philosopher-kings take heed; it follows as the night the day, that there will be a steep increase in academic funding and corporate donations.
I just joined an online forum of philosophers, and I will be raising up the song of Peake/LeMarcs, til its rhythm and cadence have become their own, you will see!
2. Read 2 Extra sect. articles:
a. on women having a better memory for personal experiential data: Oh lord, no; this type of gender biology/evolution theory I do not like, as I am a believer in the bisexual nature of persons. Hoff-Somers and the anti-gender feminism rant has done well to counter all such, and bring us again into classical liberalism and true equity and parity of universal existence. . . However, male/ female is a continuum and a range, and indeed there are different types and a variety of functioning levels. The artist, the mystic, the visionary and the genius do have advantage in all areas and memory is one more.

Let me continue on in another box below. . .

Karl L Le Marcs said...

EVERYONE: I am just going to take a 30 minute break to have something to eat and then I will return and catch up with comments.
Thank You.

SM Kovalinsky said...

(cont.)
3. Body language and gesture article, and Professor LeMarcs has the expertise here:
That subject/object/verb order of syntax sentence structure is universal makes sense; of course in autism and schizophrenia there is ofter a skewing of this process, in great poetic expression as well. Again, I think the gender war bit which we have in American culture is nicely rebutted here: For example, there was some talk of certain gestures of Eminem being effeminate; female movements of his hands, etc.--- whereas I viewed them as human gestures, human passivity and receptivity, etc. I may have to re-read this when I am not so rushed; I do think the open philosophical forum of which I have just become a member, and which I'd like to link my own blog site to, would find the Socratic dialectical master-ship of one KLLM to be a rare attribute and much needed. You are a grand master of ceremonies to the ancient Greek market place of ideas, and should be robed and sandaled and walking in the groves with the youth of Greece falling for you-------but that is my mania, I will be off before i am sorry for all--ta ta smk-----I end here for now.

SM Kovalinsky said...

FOR KLLM UPON HIS RETURN:

I am back out the door, but left 2 lengthy posted remarks for the Professor; more later and Andrew in the late afternoon. SMK

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Yes, I read waaaaayyyy too much!!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie:
Experimental Philosophy: Yes the Manifesto would be a very interesting read wouldn't it! Perhaps we can use this as a "way in" with Marinoff? I'll let you cogitate on that one.

I'm very interested in your online forum of philosophers, very Socratic yes.

Evolutionary Psychology: The Male/Female Memory link was to follow up from previous discussions on Sunday Services relating to the Left-Right brain Psychology. I TOTALLY agree with you, that a more healthily balanced brain would be, to a degree, androgynous. But a certain Anima-Persona balance is paramount in my eyes for a constructive non-partisan objective thought development.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie:
Body Language and Gesture, Oh indeed, a particular interest of mine. And your syntax comment relating to neuro-atypicality (as I term it) is wonderful.

Will hear more from you later SMK, and thank you again for all your contributions today.

SM Kovalinsky said...

I have now had a chance to read the one on SIDS; I believe it was #3. It is most interesting that there are findings of problems with recycling and use of seratonin in the brain stem. This is true as well of depressives. Makes me wonder if crib death might not be nature's way of weeding out depressives; that raises metaethical and metaphilosophical questions regarding the limits of nature and human deontological theory of surpassing nature 9i.e., what are our rights and duties here?)---Would atypical brain wiring and chemistry have a purposive function which over-rides natural selection, etc.?

roshni said...

Hi, Karl...u have done it again...wonderful....
but... *scratches head*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Thank You!

Now why are you scratching your head? Surely you are not saying you can't see the importance to ITLAD in ANY of these news items!!

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh, Roshni, you are funny! Just like me, you never forget a scuffle with him!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: article #3, yes very well said. Did you read the earlier comments regarding article #3 in relation to your thoughts?

I can't really agree with your statement that "Crib death might be nature's way of weeding out depressives", but I think I see your thought-process in relation to the meta-ethics involved.

Neuro-atypicality, in my opinion, certainly would have a wiring and chemical propensity to override certain more neuro-typical elements of natural selection.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

What 'scuffle?'

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh, hush.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

"I got a certain little girl she's on my mind
No doubt about it she looks so fine
She's the best girl that I ever had
Sometimes she's gonna make me feel so bad

Hush, hush
I thought I heard her calling my name now
Hush, hush
She broke my heart but I love her just the same now
"

*giggles*

SM Kovalinsky said...

That song was long before your time, Generation X-er.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Deep Purple!

roshni said...

karl, im scratching my head coz i really dont know wat to say..u r so brilliant...( i dont know how to be diplomatic like u!)
and now i know why u scratched your head over my post....
and im THINKING and READING hard....!!!

SM Kovalinsky said...

Correct, and you were in swaddling clothes as it aired. You are lucky; no one born after 1970 remembers the dankness of that time. I was 10, but I knew I was of the future then (daemonic Peakian reference to metaBohmian spinning).

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Thank You.

I hope you find some articles of interest in the post.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: My clothing has seldom swaddled!

*smile*

SM Kovalinsky said...

I am trying not to think of the implications of that remark.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: ......and thus, by trying not to, you actually are!!

DO NOT THINK OF AN ELEPHANT!

*smile*

SM Kovalinsky said...

Yeah; got that one all the way home.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Jolly Good!

Right, back to topic!!!!!

woodsprite said...

Susan Marie: I don't think the SIDS link to seratonin levels is nature's way of weeding out depressives because depression is so common that I'm sure it serves a survival purpose. The daemon's way of slowing us down in times of emotional overload.

I've been pondering on the critical period of development angle with this. In physiological terms it means that the control mechanism for regulating neurotransmitters sometimes takes time to settle down.

How much influence would the developing daemon have in subsequent lives, I wonder? Could the incrementally tiny steps gradually build up as the life moves on in the Bohmian IMAX?

This is something I've been wondering about since Roshni's post last week about karma. Behaviour seems to be correlated to the experience of attachment in infancy. The way an infant is responded to has been shown to be effected by the levels of another neurotransmitter, cortisol and this has a critical period too. Attachment is a two-way process and maybe if the daemon can effect the levels of cortisol by encouraging the eidolon to develop in a manner that is more attuned to the carer so that its needs are met, then MAYBE the infant would receive less stressful responses to its needs.

I'm still pondering on that one so it's not refined yet. Unlike Tony and Karl *chuckle*

SM Kovalinsky said...

Did you not understand my point, then, about sudden infant death syndrome and its connection to seratonin levels in the brain stem, and the possibility of a shut-down via natural selection? Think of Nietzsche's will to power; also Paglia's idea that we have deontological duty to go beyond nature (her essay on the gay male mind as cultural rebirth)--etc.

woodsprite said...

I meant to say that the developing brain is effected by cortisol. Cortisol is produced as a response to stress. My brain was racing ahead when I posted - sorry if that confused maatters

roshni said...

mirror neurons....i like...but what about blind people?

SM Kovalinsky said...

Woodsprite: My other one was to KLLM---yes, I think I am thinking of twilight of the idols too much, you are correct, and why was I not weeded out, as there were major reasons to do so. My son as well.

SM Kovalinsky said...

No eugenics, none, and Nietzsche would have none of it, Kaufmann knows this------I was off the mark, wondering about my own brain chemistry is all-----

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: "mirror neurons....i like...but what about blind people? "

What exactly is your question about Blind People in relation to the Mirror Neuron Roshni?

SM Kovalinsky said...

Why did my comments post all out of order, and they are all jangled out of tune now???

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite and Susan Marie: This is interesting, on one hand we have Di who works within the Mental Health sector and has first-hand empirical experience, and on the other we have SMK who has an epistemological approach. I'm keen to see the synthesis from this dialectic.
*smile*

woodsprite said...

Roshni: Good point. I there is a critical period for that one too - people who are born blind and later regain sight do not learn to read body language in the same way as sighted people. They learn cues from other stimuli such as tone of voice.

Susan Marie: I guessed you weren't talking to me - our posts crossed in the ether! *smile*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Exactly why I have asked Roshni to say exactly what her question is regarding Mirror Neurons and the Blind.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Yes, Woodsprite, or do you prefer Di (so British, we would never get it down to that)-----we crossed in the ether. But I once got asked to leave a seminar as I made this point about natural selection, and was misunderstood (my whole family might have perished in nature's holocaust)---and leave it to Prof LM to see the epistemic virtue in the argument!

roshni said...

karl,
Women Have A Better Memory For Faces And Words...( proved)
thanks woodsprite, for understanding...

SM Kovalinsky said...

Roshni? and I did not? Tell me this instant, if you are still the sweet Roshni.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: I'll leave SMK to address that comment!! Over to you Susan Marie!

woodsprite said...

Susan Marie: (and everybody)please do call me Di - it's quicker to write if nothing else! *smile*

I think it always has value to try to consider how evolution may effect traits. The danger comes when man tries to tamper with that and impose his/her own selection. Then it moves into the world of power and politics.

We can only surmise about natural selection but it makes sense that genetic traits persist because they have some sort of value for survival, even if it isn't always clear what that may be.

woodsprite said...

Karl: Don't be naughty! Of course it's our own sweet Roshni! Do you suspect we have a imposter in our midst?

The way to tell if it's a genuine Roshni is to check her joy capacity. If that's fully functional, it's Roshni! *giggle*

roshni said...

The way mirror neurons likely let us understand others is by providing some kind of inner imitation of the actions of other people, which in turn leads us to “simulate” the intentions and emotions associated with those actions. When I see you smiling, my mirror neurons for smiling fire up, too, initiating a cascade of neural activity that evokes the feeling we typically associate with a smile. I don’t need to make any inference on what you are feeling, I experience immediately and effortlessly (in a milder form, of course) what you are experiencing.
my question is what about blind people?what about their mirror neurons?

SM Kovalinsky said...

Gee, Roshni. Hmmm, maybe you can look at my comments up there in the thread, although 90% of society would affirm what you affirm. I do believe that male and female are part of a continuum, and that no one is wholly either, and that duality of gender in the psyche is the goal of a just social ordering, and conducive to unity and not divisive gender politics. But that's just me. I see the general point, with things as they stand. You going to email me again, Rosh??? please do, its lonely here in NJ. . .

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Well said, Di.

Yes, if you take Darwinian Natural Selection together with Genetic Mutation and Dawkins' Memes then you begin to have a great foundation for overall Evolutionary theory.

SM Kovalinsky said...

My comments keep posting out of order and are all looking irrelevant into the bargain, due to this. I have to go smoke now.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Are you suggesting we only learn through the visual medium?

Mirror Neurons are a MULTI-SENSORY input.

Here is an article that may help you.

Language Acquisition: Do As You Hear

roshni said...

Dearest Sweet SM, u r my first friend on this blog...and i know u understand me the best....

woodsprite said...

Roshni: I don't think blind people would develop mirror neurons. That's why they would have difficulty interpreting fcial expressions etc. But if they regained sight at an early enough stage of development, they would develop the neurones. Similarly, if they lost their sight later in life, the neurones would have developed.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: "Karl: Don't be naughty! Of course it's our own sweet Roshni!"

It wasn't ME who suggested otherwise, it was SMK!!!!

roshni said...

karl, the article has empasised on actions that r visible..
The gestures, facial expressions, body postures we make are social signals, ways of communicating with one another. Mirror neurons are the only brain cells we know of that seem specialized to code the actions of other people and also our own actions. They are obviously essential brain cells for social interactions

SM Kovalinsky said...

See, Di is so omniscient, she knows that on some deep level, I and KLLM are one and the same! How utterly flattering to ME.

And Rosh, I do thank you so much for that sweet and unforced reply!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: YES, PRECISELY! So I don't understand your problem with the article. A Blind Person would not have any visual input to the Mirror Neurons, their Mirror Neurons would be developed by the other empirical inputs.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: *blush*

woodsprite said...

Karl: Thanks for that link, it showed that there are mirror neurons linked to other senses, which is important to recognise.

Susan Marie: In the blogosphere we are all one collective consciousness with a myriad of traits.

In the pub it might be a different story!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: The Many Pubs Interpretation!!
*giggles*

I'm glad the link to the Language Acquisition article was useful to you in understanding multi-sensory input to the Mirror Neurons.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Uh, Yeah. It's the Pub scenario I want to see. i have to go out now for awhile, but I would be thrilled to hear a bit more about the implications of this new surge in experimental philosophy, it is a wonderful development, to my thinking. KLLM, please do tell JoJo that I would love to hear her own thoughts on it when she returns and reads it, and I would like to bounce back and forth with her on it.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: I've already told her SMK, and she is looking forward to talking to you about these articles here tomorrow.

roshni said...

karl: got it!...the language link helped...thanks...as i said u r brilliant...
Di!( i prefer to call u woodsprite)anyway..how do u intend to measure my joy capacity?

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Glad I could help.

roshni said...

karl, do u really giggle?

woodsprite said...

Roshni: He sure does! I've heard him!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Thank You Di.
*hugs*

I'l having a 30 minute break now, been working on here since for 8 and a half hours now!!

Will catch up with any further comments when I come back in half an hour.

Thank You.

woodsprite said...

Roshni: I'll simply read you a poem!

woodsprite said...

Karl: You are very much appreciated for the work you do, particularly on a Sunday. I know you put an awful lot of energy into it. We all benefit from that. So thank you and take a break! *hugs*

woodsprite said...

Poem for Roshni:

Unheard Music

Don't you hear it? she
asked & I shook my head
no & then she started to
dance & suddenly there
was music everywhere &
it went on for a very long
time & when I finally
found words all I could
say was thank you

Brian Andreas

roshni said...

wow! woodsprite...thanks!

woodsprite said...

Roshni: You are welcome *smile*

roshni said...

karl: article 1#.....doesnt it happen all the time in our lives...(only i didnt have an explanation ..now i have!)

SM Kovalinsky said...

Woodsprite or Di, I should call you: Tell me this instant what the giggle sounds like, you lucky dog, you: Seriously, I have to have your answer.

roshni said...

ya tell us..woodsprite..

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh, thank you, Rosh! Now where has she gone off to, where is she when we need her???

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: "Karl: You are very much appreciated for the work you do, particularly on a Sunday. I know you put an awful lot of energy into it. We all benefit from that. So thank you and take a break! *hugs*"

THANK YOU, that means a lot to me.

And your use of the poem to illustrate our point was perfect.

Interestingly, is that the same Brian Andreas that was involved in the "Hall of Whispers" experiment towards existential consciousness?

SM Kovalinsky said...

Well, I feel the exact same way; appreciate it , and even feel you should be paid for it, huh!!!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: "article 1#.....doesnt it happen all the time in our lives...(only i didnt have an explanation ..now i have!)"

Sometimes the best experiments are those that show to us what we always thought we knew.

roshni said...

what our point karl?
the poem was for ME......

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite, Susan Marie and Roshni: Ladies!! You flatter me enormously and thank you. But if we can keep to topic I would be hugely appreciative.
*tips diamante mortarboard to angle commonly known as rakish*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Really? And my comment was for Woodsprite!

woodsprite said...

Roshni and Susan Marie: Sorry - I was doing the washing up!

I am supremely lucky to have spent a wonderful afternoon in the company of Karl, Tony and Ed. Fine gentlemen all three! As you can imagine, the conversation was lively, veering from deeply intellectual to the ridiculous. Karl is a lovely, warm person as you realise from his posts. And his laughter is free flowing and friendly. What more can I say?

roshni said...

article 2#
ive heard that, animals snuff the lives out of their offspring who seem to be disable in anywway...( i dont knw why i thought about that)

SM Kovalinsky said...

Why did I know that reprimand would be forthcoming? You should try teaching a live seminar like Dr. McDonald used to; then you'll see what he was put through. Now I wish I could grasp the basic premises of the argument, but I'm afraid I am too obsessed with the experimental philosophy and keep praying that it will go back to that topic.

roshni said...

woodsprite, darling... wasnt the poem for ME...whats karl talking about?

SM Kovalinsky said...

P.S. DI: You could say a lot more and you know it! OK, back to topic, which is. . . philosophical implications of the Peakian dyad in seratonin levels .

woodsprite said...

Susan Marie: Me too! It seems a wonderful combination of philosophy and experimental psychology. Just my cup of tea!

woodsprite said...

Roshni: Yes my dear, the poem was for you. But I'll let Karl read it and use it as he will!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Thank You!

Roshni: I don't share your bleak view of article #2 but thank you for your input, and move on from the poem!

Susan Marie: Thank You for the direction!

roshni said...

woodsprite..yes...ok..*grudgingly*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: We will have no grudges here if you don't mind!

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh, I love that *grudgingly*!

But I do believe Tony has fused brain and psyche so beautifully; and here I have just joined an association of Dualists, who will have none of it, and yet at the same time are becoming increasingly intrigued as to where Peake is at with this all. I wish I knew more about the brain, in all its details, and not so much psyche, as I want to defend Tony to the death, and of course Professor LM if anything more so. Now where can I find someone who will help ghostwrite this material into my blasted one-sided and tilted philosophy essays???

SM Kovalinsky said...

LeMarcs: we posted at the same time, mind you.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Where do you (or these Dualists) locate the Psyche then, if not in the brain?

roshni said...

karl,
article 4#...
wouldnt it gr8 if there would be something to measure artificial/hypocrisy and natural feelings?

woodsprite said...

Susan Marie: If you are serious about wanting someone to help with the brain physiology, I would be pleased to help in any way. I'm no expert but I have access to people who are.

SM Kovalinsky said...

They take the Cartesian ghost in the machine very seriously, and dualism is very against brain science, and is a backlash against it. Yet they are more impressed with you and Peake than those in your own camp, and I know the reason why, too.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: There is! It's called language and expressionism.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh, thank you, Di: I am quite serious. Only hope they will be nice to me.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Yes, but that would be a Dualism between Mind and Matter, not Brain and Psyche!

I will check them out from the link you sent me and email you privately in the next couple of days.

woodsprite said...

Karl: It IS the same Brian Andreas but I came across him via a different route. Damn! More reading!

SM Kovalinsky said...

No, they are a different group. Far different. I can send you some on them, but I want my post up on it so you can see it, first. But psyche is viewed as separate from the brain, and not bound up with it. Brain = body, Psyche = Mind. Platonic Forms and essentialist views hold sway. And they say things such as , "There IS such a thing as human sorrow, and it does not reside in the neurons, nor in seratonin levels; Hamlet did not need Prozac" etc.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

EVERYONE: Thank You for another wonderful Sunday Service. I must draw things to a conclusion for a while now as I have non ITLADic work to do ahead of a busy day tomorrow.

I know that Johar will want to comment on the articles and discussion tomorrow and while I am away for a part of the day I would ask my colleague Professor Kovalinsky to take over as Sunday Service Blog Moderator until I return on Monday afternoon.

Thank You all again, and I will periodically check in to see if any more questions have been asked while I do my other work.

Prof Le Marcs
*giggles*

roshni said...

again *giggles*..this ive to hear...karl, what r u doing about that audio? include the giggle too!

SM Kovalinsky said...

Oh, yeah, Roshni! Can you imagine if he would include that? Let us beg and bribe him to it, huh? We have to!!!

Professor: Thank you, and I will honor the task for you. A Professor who *giggles* comes from Plato's Realms, and will return thence oneday to giggle for Plato. good evening. SMK

woodsprite said...

Everything I touch at the moment has a resounding significance. Why did I choose that particular poem for Roshni? I was simply drawn to it.

The poetry book I was instantly in love with when I came across it in a little bookshop in a small town on Chesapeake Bay.

Now Karl points out the artist who made the book was involved in an experiment in existential consciousness.

My mind is rushing excitedly from one thing to another at the moment. (Sound familiar Karl?) And I think it's linked to the lucid dream I had a couple of weeks ago.

*dancing in delight*

SM Kovalinsky said...

Write the dream, here, Di, while I smoke, and will be right back. . . If you want to, that is!

woodsprite said...

Susan Marie: I went to sleep with the intention of dreaming. I remembered about the way I used to pray - stopping the inner chatter, opening up to the other. I get a tingling sensation over my eyes when I do that and that was my aim. Karl had suggested I tried reading in my dream, but it wasn't that kind of dream. I wasn't acting anything out, it was more a state of being. But I KNEW I was asleep and I KNEW I was dreaming at the time.

I've no idea how long after I fell asleep it took me to reach that state. It seemed immediate and seemed to last all night. I doubt that was the case but that was my experience.

I was filled with a wordless understanding that I would soon become one with my daemon. I was so convinced of that that when I awoke I completely believed I would die that day.

At first I thought about the arrangements I should make for my sister and children. Then I realised that it wouldn't matter because they were in my Bohmian IMAX and would not exist once I left this version of my life. Thaat gave me an intense sense of peace.

A strangely exciting acceptance that something momentous would happen that day completely filled me. I was aware of everything around me and my mind was racing.

I had a lecture that morning on Law for Social Workers and it was very difficult to focus on the very dry subject matter. By the afternoon I was beginning to come down - I hadn't been swept off this existence, but I did have a corker of a migraine. So I went home while I could still drive (not that that really bothered me of course). I went to bed and fell into a deep sleep without dreaming.

I've found it very hard to focus on mundane tasks ever since because my mind wants to be concentrating on other things.

I didn't think I would write that down because it seemed so foolish -fancy imagining I was going to die for heaven's sake! Anyway, that's it. Make of it what you will.

SM Kovalinsky said...

DI: I thank you for relaying that to me! That is truly fascinating, and of course I do see it as some sort of state of strong communion with the Daemon. I find it extremely compelling, but extremely! Do you know, I have never had a lucid dream, not once. However, I have had states when I am awake, usually out doing something unusual (like attending a political rally, or a press conference; or on vacation in Provincetown) in which I get just such a feeling as you describe, like the noetic state described by William James in the Varieties of Religious Experience. And with that same after-effect which you describe: Not wanting to ever come back down! I still get a high from remembering one such state in 2001. And I know you told KLLM that you suffer from migraines: so do I. It is all very fascinating, and I do thank you for it! Yes, you and I and K all have racing thoughts! It comes with the territory of inspiration, I think; coupled with high intelligence.

woodsprite said...

Susan Marie: Thank you for understanding. Believe me, I have been quite reluctant to describe the dream to anyone - not even Karl! But I'm glad I have shared it.

I have spent a lot of my life "asleep" - trying to fit in, pleasing other people, limiting what I talk about. I'm so pleased that I've been guided to Tony's work and through him to this blog, and Karl of course. Here I'm encouraged to think rigourously and creatively and it's like coming home.

SM Kovalinsky said...

Yes, it is, and I have felt that way myself, which is why I was so drawn to philosophy. And I do think that there are many people in the world who would like to be able to talk and think more creatively and expansively. And I am grateful that you shared such an intense experience with me!

woodsprite said...

You are welcome! Thank you for attending to what I wanted to say.

Now I need to get ready for bed! I've got work tomorrow and there's a book that's been calling to me all day!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Di! Thank You for sharing such a personal story with us. I'm so pleased that we here have brought you from your insular shell to a state where you are *dancing with delight*

Your dream is indeed somewhat harrowing and has a Daemonic hue to it's colouring. I might question the Lucidity of it however, as a pure Lucid Dream is under your control, I would term your dream as unconscious dictated (which would still allow Daemonic imagery).

I'll talk to you more about it on email over the next few days, but again, thank you. It must have been difficult for you to put that on the blog but Susan Marie was beautiful in her handling of it and I thank her for that also.

*hugs*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: Thank You SMK!

SM Kovalinsky said...

All my honor, LM.

Andrew Giancarlo said...

oh wow,I come in from work and theres like 200 comments! I want to read the whole thread and focus on a couple articles so i can make a substantial contribusion for you Professor LeMarcs. I have talked with Mom about some of it and I agree with her that new research is in the best of hands if those hands belong to philosophers and I think that the times are running in favor of you and Tony Peak. Please let me make some comments when I have had supper and can read and focus in the right way, thanks. Hey I want to say I was the one who found Persinger on NDE first for my mom in '06!

ra from ca said...

Karl:

Your probably are asleep now, but thank you for all the wonderful articles. I've read most and enjoyed them. Thanks for all your hard work. I am particularly interested in "Minds Eye Influences Visual Perception" and the article on Migraines and Epilepsy. The last made me think of Anthony's work. Thanks again.

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