Saturday, 17 May 2008

Simple CTF Question

Are the subsequent lives in ITLAD theory experienced in the same flesh and blood manner as the virgin life or are they played out only within our consciousness, like in a dream. From my understanding I would say the latter; however I suspect the panel would say this is incorrect.

15 comments:

Karl L Le Marcs said...

RAC: The recurrences of CTF are played out within what Tony terms the Bohmian IMAX in deference to David Bohm's “Implicate Order” and Daniel Dennett's "Cartesian Theatre".

The Bohmian IMAX is a three-dimensional (or four dimensional including space-time) holographic representation of existence which is indistinguishable to the Eidolon from the 'reality' of the Virgin Life.

It is, of course, also open to debate whether ANY empirical experiences occur in anything other than a holographic model which David Bohm, Karl Pribram and F. David Peat have been the pioneers in suggesting.

To answer your question, Robert: No, the ‘subsequent lives’ are not ‘experienced in the same flesh and blood manner as the Virgin Life’ but are holographically replayed to consciousness within the Bohmian IMAX but are as seemingly ‘real’ to us as previous lives.

So, your initial understanding of the returns being played out within consciousness were correct and suspicions of ‘panel’ disagreement were unfounded but I do rather like the idea of there being an ITLAD panel: does this mean we can sit behind an overlong table drapped in some material (gingham preferably) with polished name plates and some decanters of spring water extracted from the hills and vales of Madagascar by blind monkeys?

johar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
johar said...

Hi RAC,

Your suggestion is exactly how I understand the ITLAD concept.

So, in the VL, is it like your the director of the film of your life but in subsequent reruns you are in the film?

ra from ca said...

Ok I think I understand and then I I'm not sure.

I thought that even in a VL your understanding of life is Maya/illusion. Haven't we already agreed that it is likely we have free-will in reruns so that you are directing your life to some degree no matter how many times you have occurred.

Are we like characters in a computer program? There are many options for action and with each reoccurrence of the game we can make any of the programmed choices?
Thus we are always directing the action, but we know we didn't program it.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Ra from Ca: Hi Ruth, Yes I agree.

I do think we have direction in the Daemonic returns but they exist within our Bohmian IMAX not within 'flesh and blood'. Of course, it is debatable whether anything is 'real' or not within even a Virgin Life, but as all ITLADic recurrence are holographic replays to our subjective consciousness then such recurrences are not materialistic in nature but idealist.

RAC said...

Karl: Thank you for the clear and concise response. I believe I actually heard the click of my internal light switch as it turned on. Now I'll just have to work on understanding the mechanics of the Bohmian IMAX Theater.

And yes, I think the analogy of sitting before the ITALD panel is quite fitting; at least emotionally. ;-)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

RAC: You are very welcome Robert, that is what I am here for!

I would suggest you read into Daniel Dennett's "Cartesian Theatre" and David Bohm's "Implicate Order" as well as Tony's FABO ITLAD and Bohmian IMAX as the three together compliment each other superbly.

Some wikipedia links here for you
(which not a lot of people know I write much towards *shhhhh*)

Cartesian Theatre

Implicate Order

Hope this helps further Robert, thank you.

RAC said...

Cool... I loves me some Wikipedia. It fits my short attention span nicely.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Sorry, what did you say Robert!

*HA!*

(yes, some of the writing on the Implicate Order one is mine)

Anthony Peake said...

Karl has responded with exactly the answer I would have given had I not been out lecturing yesterday.

The VL is a 'flesh and blood' existence in the sense that it is experienced within what seems to be an external and consistant world inhabited by 'other minds' and populated by real, three dimensional objects. However, and this is a big however, if we apply Copenhagen and the theories of David Bohm, even this VL is a possible brain-generated illusion. However explaining the mechanism whereby this can be the case is an area of interesting conjecture.

All subsequent 'lives' exist within the Bohmian IMAX and as such are 'brain generated'. Of course it can be argued that it is only in subsequent 'lives' that the observed phenomenon of the Implicate Order, Copenhagen Interpretation and MWI exist (interesting idea: would Everett, Bohm, Bohr, Heisenberg, de Broglie et al come up with their respective theries within their respective VL's? - or did all of them need to be existing in their own Bohmian IMAX's to make the observations that lead to their respective contributions to particle theory?).

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Tony: Thank You, I'm glad I was an effective understudy while you were lecturing in Moreton!

Interesting question re Everett, Bohm and Bohr etc, but I cannot see why they couldn't have developed their ideas within their Virgin Life (I don't see there is a requirement for either a Daemon or to be within a Bohmian IMAX recurrence before such observations could be made)

So I'd be interested to hear more on your thoughts that:

"Of course it can be argued that it is only in subsequent 'lives' that the observed phenomenon of the Implicate Order, Copenhagen Interpretation and MWI exist"

WHY???????

and

"(interesting idea: would Everett, Bohm, Bohr, Heisenberg, de Broglie et al come up with their respective theries within their respective VL's? - or did all of them need to be existing in their own Bohmian IMAX's to make the observations that lead to their respective contributions to particle theory?)"

Why would someone NOT be able to make such observation from the Virgin Life??

Will look forward to your comments Tony, either here or in the pub on Wednesday.
*wink*
Cheers!!!

RAC said...

So here’s what I’ve come up with since Karl's original comment.

To me this suggests a more parallel (or circular) existence than I originally understood. The paradox as I see it is that all the evidence for this brain-generated illusion seems to be physiological. Maybe Groundhog Day was more accurate than first imagined. One "physical life" reused over and over... sort of.

Since time is the ultimate illusion, while I sit here typing these words my life has already been lived - it is my perception of it that makes it appear in the now. And because my life has already been lived, my first Bohmian IMAX has already begun. Now my Daemon has access to my "second life" and my original life in essence becomes my second life… and on and on.

OK, now I really am out of bullets and confusing even myself.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

RAC: Cease confusing yourself Robert, for you are now BANG (bullets pun intended) on the mark with your thoughts regarding Tony's FABO theory.

I'm delighted that my original comment the question within your post helped you and brought clarity.

Such is reward enough for me!

RAC said...

"Success!" he says in his best Borat fashion.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

"Avenged!", says I in woefully inadequate manner of Estragon in Beckett's "Waiting For Godot"

*dances little jig*