Tuesday, 24 June 2008

LIFE between LIFE...

Choosing our Life’s Circumstances
We choose the major circumstances of our lives before we are born. We do this in order to enable us to evolve more fully and help others to do the same.
In the vast state of consciousness we experience in the spiritual state between lifetimes, we have much greater access to knowledge and understanding than we may have during physical life. We are able to see very clearly what type of experiences and relationships we will need for our growth. Some very advanced souls may even choose very difficult lives of hardship or handicap in order to develop more quickly or even to help others develop more quickly.
Great growth can come from having a difficult lifetime and the trade-off between “hardship for a few years” may not seem that great a burden compared to the great growth and evolution of our consciousness we will experience as a result.
It is important to understand that we are never forced to have physical lives than we do not wish for. We choose everything for ourselves based on what we need to learn, and we always have access to advice from others who are more evolved than ourselves
The Purpose of Life
The purpose of life is to grow spiritually and help others to do the same.
Although we may choose these major things for ourselves before we are born, once we are actually here in this physical world, we have complete free well to do as we choose.

44 comments:

Jesamyn said...

Roshni.... your comments strike a definite chord with me, whatever respected fellow-bloggers may say...
My brother reviews books and then passes them along to me... and when I lost my soul mate he sent a few Angel type books which seemed a bit too glib and syrupy, and he added the comment *why would we CHOOSE to be murdered*?? or whatever the subject was re this.as one Author proposed.... but I thought then and said to him In our Collective Consciousness state where our Higher Self is in charge, it is but the blink of an eye if we indeed exist forever...and maybe we choose to be examples to a dark world for all our Evolvements sake... I will be most interested in other comments both for and against!!!
Jesamyn

woodsprite said...

I'm afraid I cannot agree with the premise that we choose our lives before we are born. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea that people who have dreadful lives due to poverty, illness, trauma or abuse have in some spiritual way decided to experience hardship for the betterment of their souls. It is a way of thinking which excuses inequality.

Jesamyn said...

Hi Woodsprite!!! I would love to hear then, your reasons for poverty, hardship,etc. Is all a meaningless Chocolate Wheel of Fortune or Misfortune?? In other words, either it is a most intricate web or a random mish mash that our lives are... I would love to hear your views then why such hideous atrocities are in some lives??
Respectfully
Jesamyn.

Hurlyburly said...

About a year or so ago i read a book that argues pretty much exactly what you have said here. It was called "Discover the secret of inner peace" or something very similar. It argued exactly that, that we choose our circumstances before birth so we can grow and evolve in the way we choose. That there are old souls on this planet that have evolved more so than others. It also had a striking similarity to Tony's book in that it argues we need to speak to our inner father and inner mother in times of need. Comparasons to the daemon could easily been made. Anyway, not saying i agree with all of it but there's a fair bit in there that i do appreciate. I'll try to find out the exact title and author for you

Jesamyn said...

Hmmm ... thank you Hurly!!!
Could be the reason that when (yet another!!) misfortune happens in the current Life we feel so resigned and Deja Vu ... ish!!!Just to tread the treadmill to a better Existence some day...
Jesamyn.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: I agree with the sentiment behind your post but, like Woodsprite I simply cannot agree with your opening statement that "We choose the major circumstances of our lives before we are born" on many levels!!

Evolution, of any kind, requires no preordained choices (in fact the two would be mutually-exclusive)

Even Tony's Daemon-Eidolon Dyad contains the element of evolution through guidance. It is our free will that determines our existential evolution, not determinism.

Jesamyn said...

But Karl what if our *free will* is built in to our Consciousness???and we are but puppets in the hands of some Maniacal *god*???
Jesamyn

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Jesamyn: Thus we enter Metaphysical-Theology, and as ITLAD does not deal in Theology it has always been Tony's wish to keep discourse away from that area.

In my opinion there is a need to have a deeply theological debate but the blog is probably not the place to have it.

Once the ITLADic Forum is established (hopefully in the next few weeks) then perhaps that would be the ideal place to do so.

roshni said...

Hey all, since i believe in the law of karma it is easy for me!
it says...
we discover that everything we do in life will have an effect on our own lives. Whenever we do something that causes another person suffering, then it is inevitable that we will also suffer in some manner in the future as a result of that action.

Thus all of our actions (in thoughts, words, and deeds) actually mould our reality and create the circumstances of our lives.

Whatever causes us suffering in our lives has actually been created by our own past actions, in thought, word and deed. We are totally responsible for all that happens to us and will happen to us. Therefore we can also have great influence on what we experience in the future if we change our behaviour (in thought, word and deeds) from this point onwards. If we just go on repeating the same negative causes in life then we receive the same affects again and again. However, whenever we change the causes we are making in the present into more favourable ones then we are actually guaranteed that our future circumstances must also change as a result.

Because life is eternal, much of the retribution we bring on ourselves can also be in future lives. Evidence from past life regressions indicate that we attract into our lives those people who in the past we have hurt, and also those who have hurt us.

Karma & Reincarnation

It is because of the existence of this universal law of karma, that we form bonds of debt to other people that we will need to balance at some point in the future. It is because of this law of karma that we usually choose to be reborn again and again into earthly life.

It can often take many lifetimes to make amends to those whom we have hurt and let others who have hurt us also pay back their debts. We may encounter each other again and again !

Certain deeply embedded characteristics also appear to surface again and again throughout numerous lifetimes.

johar said...

Hi Roshni,

"We choose the major circumstances of our lives before we are born"

Ok, so 'choose' is a word I, too, am uncomfortable with.

However, I've been looking at this question ITLADically and fundamentally, there is some truth in Roshni's words.

Within the Bohmian IMAX, the choices of our lives are the choices we made in the Virgin Life. Therefore,elementally, it can be said we do choose our future lives before we are born (or start the recording of past life memories).

Now, we may live many, many lives in exactly the same way before there is any change. Fortunately, the Bohmian IMAX is not a static or constant state. Evolution of awareness and changes can be made within the Bohmian IMAX with daemonic guidance, if we choose to listen. Again, I reiterate, this is not conscious awareness as far as 'choosing' is concerned but subconscious 'choosing' based on daemonically guided awareness.

It's not 'conscious' choices we are making, but with daemonic guidance, we are choosing different options. Each tiny change creates an evolutionary spiral.

It is a dynamic, flowing state.

I agree we don't 'choose' suffering and pain etc to gain awareness earlier or develop more quickly, as Roshni states but previous choices do govern future lives, I think.

And from this perspective, I can say, then, that suffering and pain don't last forever as we move towards the Ultimate Life.

roshni said...

Let me not beg for the stilling of my pain but for the heart to conquer it."

~ Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941), poet, philosopher, first Hindu Nobel laureate


Suffering, both mental and physical, is thought to be part of the unfolding of karma. Suffering is seen as the consequence of past inappropriate action (mental, verbal, or physical) that occurred in either one's current life or in a past life. It isn't seen as punishment but as a natural consequence of the moral laws of the universe in response to past negative behavior.


Hindu traditions promote coping with suffering by accepting it as a just consequence and understanding that suffering isn't random.If a Hindu were to ask "why me?" or feel her circumstances weren't "fair," a response would be that her current situation is the exactly correct situation for her to be in, given her soul's previous action. Experiencing current suffering also satisfies the debt incurred for past behavior.

Suffering is seen as a part of living until finally reaching 'moksha' or the complete release from the cycle of rebirths. Until reaching this state, suffering is always present on life's path. Hindu tradition holds that as we are in human form on earth, we're bound by the laws of our world and will experience physical pain. Pain is truly felt in our current physical bodies; it isn't illusory in the sense of not really being felt.


But while the body may be in pain, the Self or soul isn't affected or harmed.

"Weapons do not cut it; fire does not burn it,
Waters do not wet it, wind does not wither it.
It cannot be cut or burned; it cannot be wet or withered;
It is enduring, all-pervasive, fixed, immovable, and timeless."

As the Self isn't affected, there need be no concern over temporary suffering. Those of us in pain may gain comfort by viewing pain as only a temporary condition and one that doesn't affect our inner Selves

johar said...

I do not agree with a moralistic universe that incurs punishment for one past misdemeanors.

What I do believe is that whatever is laid down within the Virgin Life will be played out again and again within the Bohmian IMAX.

It is here we do have the oppotunity to grow and evolve through awareness and daemonic guidance.

And it is from here we can make different choices and ultimately make reparation for things we have done in past lives.

But this is not governed by universal judgement, it is governed by our own free will, growing awareness of our actions and openness to guidance.

roshni said...

i agree with u johar, on the moralistic aspect...
im also trying to put in a differnt perspective of a differnt culture and religion...i dont adhere to everything ...i believe in KARMA..our actions play a very important role in our lives..past, present , future...

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Let’s compare your very first statement from your original post with your very last statement in your previous comment:

Original Statement: “We choose the major circumstances of our lives before we are born

Last Statement: “i believe in KARMA..our actions play a very important role in our lives..past, present , future...

See why I could not agree with you at the beginning?

How can Karma (in which you believe) play out as a result of our actions, if those actions and circumstances themselves are ‘chosen’ prior to our own birth?

The two are contradictory.

Hurlyburly said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hurlyburly said...

I believe she is saying we choose the circumstances of our lives but ultimately the way in which we act (actions)is up to us.


....right?

roshni said...

yes, they seem contradictory....
karl, please understand that im struggling to comprehend many things... the confusion with ancient hindu scriptures, my own thoughts/questions regarding afterlife, rituals, science, new philosophy, life.... everything!! thats why this blogsite is very important for me..to debate ,to be corrected and to be enlightened....
the whole point of living is to learn na?( another purpose of life!)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

"choose" is still the problematic axiom within the premise. Either pre-existential or within a recurrence.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Hi Rosh, I am glad you agree.

Yes, this blog is here for the development of everyone and ultimately the evolution of ITLAD into a collective Theory of Everything.

Thank you Rosh.

roshni said...

hurly...i believe thats what i wanted to say..( i was so bad at it!had to go round and round...) i truly wish i had the clarity of mind and writing as some of u on this blogsite have...

Hurlyburly said...

Oh...actually. That doesn't really work does it?!

Maybe you have less desriable choices available to you if you act badly? Good karma gives you better options for better a life before you're born.

So Will Smith probably had a fairly good previous life? and so on? This leaves little room for change and requires determined souls to change break the cycle.

roshni said...

u know, hurly, sometimes, i think, i should concentrate on THIS life and the actions/ circumstances in it...

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Hurlyburly: Yes, precisely my point all along.

How can Karma have any role if all conditions are pre-determined.

In Mathematics and Philosophy it would be called a false logistical syllogism.

Roshni: Yes, Rosh. We are all here to assist each other, bringing our own individual skills to the blog.

Hurlyburly said...

It can work but it would be a very pick & mix explanation and highly unlikely..

But saying that, not everybody i meet believes me when i tell them we've actualy met before.. ;)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Let's not bother then.

roshni said...

karl...im trying..
The soul whn released from the body can choose its circumstances but as soon as it gets a physical form ,has free will and can do as it pleases..can act according to its wishes....hence law of karma-(meaning action....)states simply that....if u do good ...good things will happen to u...if u do bad ..bad things will happen to u.... ( now what is good and what is bad..? who determines that?)

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Well the answer to that lies within the Philosophy of Ethics doesn't it?

roshni said...

hmmmmmmmmm!

roshni said...

doesnt everyone instinctively know whats right and wrong?{wondering aloud}

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Roshni: Unfortunately not as "right" and "wrong" are too open to subjective interpretation.

Hurlyburly said...

I was just pondering this as i walked to get my lunch (late shift today). I'm still of the opinion that morality is relative. It changes over time.

However if the world only exists for us within our own timeline then perhaps it doesn't?

woodsprite said...

Roshni: What you are saying is very clear. The choices we make have an effect in this lifetime but also in subsequent lifetimes. We can choose to do thing which harm other people, life itself and this world. This has an ultimate consequence for our "soul".

I can see the value of this belief. As you say it takes away angry railing at the injustice of the world which can only be a good thing. It imposes a moral code which again is a good thing. It was one of the things which impressed me when I was in India. (It also helped me personally after I was badly ripped off when I first got to Delhi - I could let go of my angry feelings and accept that the people who conned me out of my money would be building up bad karma. This enabled me to be free from bad feelings, recognise the good in other people and enjoy a marvellous holiday)

Thinking of that from ITLAD - The basic premise is that we aare born and lead the initial Virgin Life. At the moment before Death we enter the Life Review in what appears to be real time and relive the whole thing again but with the advantage of making different choices. The Daemon is aware of this process of reliving via the Bohmian IMAX but is subsumed within the Eidolon, our unaware self. The Daemon can try to guide the Eidolon not to repeat the same errors but the Eidolon has free will and can do what it likes.

OK - so where does karma fit? In the sense of reincarnation as someone else then it doesn't fit. The cycle repeats with the same basic genetic makeup and we are born into the same family. That is the life we will be reviewing. But from the first breath there is the potential to behave differently. The range of possible responses to stimuli is smaller in a newborn but there can be some and it increases as we devlop.

Perhaps karma can be seen as "bad habits" - choices we make that have bad outcomes for us or for other lives. And that can effect the chain of occurances. For example, a fretful grouchy baby can effect the attachment/bonding relationship. It is recognised that attachment style has a physiological effect on the brain. Like animals there are critical periods for experiences to happen that set in place a chain reaction.

Mmmm... but if a child is born to a paarent who is unable to respond to its needs for whatever reason, this is not something the child can alter.

Forgive me for rambling a bit. I'm just thinking out loud (or out typing to be accurate)

I'm sorry Roshni... much as I REALLY would like to hold b oth concepts - the Hindu view of karma and ITLAD - I don't think they are quite compatible.

Or have I missed something?

roshni said...

im so sorry woodsprite, that u were treated badly in Delhi....next time u r in india we have to meet...
...i really think that for me...this blogsite is a platform to examine various viewpoints that deal with ITLAD...(also to clear halfbaked concepts in my head).i dont think that all viewpoints have to be compatiable...we can agree to disagree na?

woodsprite said...

Roshni: Of course! There is room in this world for difference! I'm working through all this and don't always get it straight away. It's helpful talking things through with you. Besides, I really appreciate your approach to life. You have plenty to teach me!

roshni said...

woodsprite;same is the case with me...i get very confused..and as i said, i am not able to express my self clearly many times...(there r scholars here and ive to be so careful...)but im also very impulsive and silly...i argue for arguing sake and then whn i look back i see my mistakes i feel rotten!...on the other hand.. i love your straightforwardness ...u put your ideas so clearly.....its amazing ..there is no place for ambiguity...

woodsprite said...

Roshni: It seems to me that everybody on this site at least occasionally argues for arguing sake! Please don't feel rotten for making impulsive mistakes - I do it all the time!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Oh Di!!!!
I really can't let that 'arguement' comment go.

Any arguement without beneficial intention is utterly meaningless, and I think the vast majority of us here work together to advance the understanding, education and development of Tony's theories and its expansion.

Sorry, but I usually do agree with you Di, however I feel I must stick up here for those who work very hard on this blog to cultivate meaningful and progressive discourse for the benefit an collective progression of all.

woodsprite said...

Karl: Fair comment! As usual it comes down to my sloppy generalisation. I didn't mean to imply that anyone entertains time wasting in that way. What I meant was that from time to time some people may use argument as a way of pushing an idea which they present more strongly than they may feel. I certainly do not have the impression that anything meaningless is found here!

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: Thank You Di.

woodsprite said...

I REALLY would not wish to cause any offence to anybody who posts on this site. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the quality of discussion and appreciate the way people help each other explore and understand. I know I've benefitted hugely.

*blushes with embarrassment*

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Woodsprite: I hope I speak for everyone when I say Thank You.

That is why I personally give so much time and effort here.

Thank you again for your words.

SM Kovalinsky said...

I am not taking up the thread of the argument, but maybe placing my own thoughts for my own clarification. Within philosophic arguments concerning free will vs determinism, there is soft determinism, and the solution of compatiblism. I always thought Schopenhauer was really such. If there is a cohesive philosophy behind the Peakian dyad, some sort of ethics must flow from it, some solid stance on deterministic theory; some major foothold has to be shown about the CTF thesis which speaks to metaphysics, etc. Otherwise, my framework collapses at the first serious encounter. Questions regarding theology, for instance, cannot be ignored in terms of the daemon, or at least they will not be ignored by certain subsets of thinkers (Wilberians . etc.)---I guess this is alarming me in that if I have made a false step here, all which follows will be skewed. I have linked the dyad to Kierkegaard, a Christian existentialist thinker! I have linked CTF to Schopenhauer, who denies free will ! In trying to serve Tony up a holy meal, I may have overturned the caldron and spilled the contents out all over him, horrifying to think of. Better think on it to myself.

SM Kovalinsky said...

The Pythagorean Golden Verses, Plotinus on the Daemon: all linked to CTF, all circle around the Peakian Dyad, so if I were to cancel these out. . . I would have to rework the premise, the basic presupposition, and by way of that declension, from metaphysics to purely quantum science. . . Oh,no.

Karl L Le Marcs said...

Susan Marie: I fully agree regarding the Philosophical dichotomies, but ITLAD is a paradigm shift in conceptual philosophical thinking.

Whilst initially one is taken into Solipsism with CTF, my 'Mother Paradox' and CtCw theories, when added to Tony's theories, make the collective Philosophy more cohesive; drawing elements of existing combative philosophy into a new zeitgeist.

I'll work with you, as I promised, to establish the discourse with which we can position this new paradigm within existing academia.